Lets see some mini/small carriers

Those hybrid cruisers were a very interesting idea, but I guess big guns and biplanes don’t mix very well 😀

I’d like to see a hybrid spin-off of the DD(X) :diablo:

Dear SteveO,

Actually in the contexts of the times they “sort of” made sense. But radar and vast improvements in aircraft made them “sort of” stupid. But for hunting down commercial raiders and destroyer squadrons on the high seas they made sense at that time. They were designed mainly to operate far from bases alone. For example if the RN had had one when it was hunting the Graf Spee it would have been of great help. But in the long run it made more sense to have a seperate escort or light carrier operating with the all guns warships.

Jack E. Hammond

Those hybrid cruisers were a very interesting idea, but I guess big guns and biplanes don’t mix very well 😀

I’d like to see a hybrid spin-off of the DD(X) :diablo:

1930 Flight Deck Light Cruiser Plans of USN

Dear SteveO,

Sorry, but those were not it. The flight deck behind the two turrets (ie with three cannons each) had no island and no 5/38 caliber dual purpose cannons and the illustration showed it with the Boeing fighter-bombers.

Last, this is a shame. But I had almost all my old Warship Internationals along with other material in storage. It got broken in to and a few boxes were taken. Unfortunately my collection of older WI were taken.

Jack E. Hammond

Folks,

I know I am answering my own post, but it is the easiests way to do it. To wit, I have at last found those old Warship Internationals and the issue that covered the USN plans for a light cruiser mounting 6 inch naval cannons and a unit of fighter-bombers. I have scanned just three pages of that large article explaining the rational and a illustration of what it looked like and the purpose drawing that was almost funded for 1932. And I wish to thank those that found the plans made in the 1940s for about the same concept.

Jack E. Hammond

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Dear SteveO,

Sorry, but those were not it. The flight deck behind the two turrets (ie with three cannons each) had no island and no 5/38 caliber dual purpose cannons and the illustration showed it with the Boeing fighter-bombers.

Last, this is a shame. But I had almost all my old Warship Internationals along with other material in storage. It got broken in to and a few boxes were taken. Unfortunately my collection of older WI were taken.

Jack E. Hammond

I just remembered this link posted by Tiornu which features plans for flight deck cruisers from the 30’s http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/albums/s511-a.htm

Here is an example – 12,000 ton flight deck cruiser (“CF”) with a main battery of three 8″ guns http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/s-file/s511-04.jpg

This is a good book I own on hybrid warships http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1557503745/ref=sib_rdr_dp/102-4064001-5241721?%5Fencoding=UTF8&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&no=283155&st=books&n=283155

Submarine-Aircraft Combo

Dear Steve,

Yes that was the photo shown. Also, History Channel showed an idea that the Russians had in the late 1930s that looked a lot like the Italian SA S.73 on floats only with armor plating!!!!

Last, thanks for posting the link. I really appreciate the effort. Sorry, I can’t post a photo or link of the 1930s USN idea for a cruiser-aircraft carrier.

Jack E. Hammond

I know you will find this impossible to believe, but a US aircraft manufacture in the 1960s or 1970s offered to the US Navy an aircraft design that could be launched from a submarine under water raise to the surface, take off and then patrol, etc and then land and go back underwater and redock in the submarines. Bill Sweetman back in the 1990s posted on Compuserves Military.Com (ie one of the few military forums then with a large scale membership) the only know photo of the design.

Is this it? http://www.waterufo.net/flyingsubs/NavyFlyingSubHtml1.htm

Basically the design was for a battle group to hunt down commercial radars and naval groups composing of fast destroyers and cruisers and as a colonial-cruiser to show the flag and the then todays politically incorrect term of “keeping the natives” in line. Some have said that is exactly what Spains one V/STOL carrier was orginally designed for.

Jack E. Hammond

The Sea Control Ship concept was the brainchild/pet-project of then-CNO Zumwalt but never came to fruition in the USN.
A Sea Control Ship (SCS) is a type of small aircraft carrier designed and conceptualised by the US Navy in the 1960s. The SCS was designed due to severe cuts in Navy spending, requiring a cheap, flexible platform that could deliver air power to the field without resorting to an enormous aircraft carrier.
SCS was a concept in which a shipboard platform would have a smaller complement of aircraft than the large carriers(CVA) and would maintain control of sea lines/lanes inlow threat areas of the world. A SCS ship would be designed to carry the V/STOL aircraft as well as helicopters, in order to provide protection of underway replenishment groups, mercantile convoys, amphibious assault forces and task groups with no aircraft car-ner III company
The SCS concept apparently began in 1969 with a study from the USN’s Long Range Objectives Group for a new ship called the DHK. These ships of around 14000fl would carry 12 ASW Helos plus the usual destroyer type armament (e.g. aviation capable Spruance variant). Also looked at in the same study was conversion of Commencement Bay class CVEs. In 1971 the SCS designation was formally assigned for preliminary design. At this time the capability to carry VSTOL fighters was added. SCS Air Group:
11 ASW Helos
3 Early Warning Helos
3 Harrier Fighters
In late 1971 the USS Guam LPH 9 was modified for proof of concept trials lasting until the Spring of 1974 operating both ASW Helos and Harriers. The SCS design was canceled although modified plans were sold to Spain resulting in the Principe de Asturias small carrier.

I have to admit that I didn’t think the Skyhook concept was a practical one, In my opinion it defeated the benefits of operating a V/STOVL aircraft that didn’t need shipborne systems such as catapults and arrestor gear.

I do have a book called Strike from Beneath the Sea: A History of Aircraft Carrying Submarines by Terry C. Treadwell which has a very good cover illustration featuring a Skyhook equiped submarine aircraft carrier:)

Folks,

I know you will find this impossible to believe, but a US aircraft manufacture in the 1960s or 1970s offered to the US Navy an aircraft design that could be launched from a submarine under water raise to the surface, take off and then patrol, etc and then land and go back underwater and redock in the submarines. Bill Sweetman back in the 1990s posted on Compuserves Military.Com (ie one of the few military forums then with a large scale membership) the only know photo of the design.

Jack E. Hammond

Folks,

I can’t find the copy of WARSHIPS (ie it was from the 1970s) but in the early 1930s the US considered a quasi-cruiser/carrier design. It was a light or heavy cruiser with the two forward turrets and a deck behind them which could operate a half dozen Boeing F4B fighter/bombers. While today it would be considered stupid by the lessons of WW2, remember back then radar was not known and night operations of aircraft was nexts to impossible. Basically the design was for a battle group to hunt down commercial radars and naval groups composing of fast destroyers and cruisers and as a colonial-cruiser to show the flag and the then todays politically incorrect term of “keeping the natives” in line. Some have said that is exactly what Spains one V/STOL carrier was orginally designed for.

Jack E. Hammond

Don Chan: mate what was the purpose of that pic? hmmmmmmm, thanks anyway, like the scenery!

djnik: mate if you are interested in seaplane tenders, then perhaps a thread on them could be arranged, I too have an interest in them, mainly in the IJNS Chitose and the HMAS Albatross which came too late for WWI and served in the RAN for only nine years before being transfered to the RN as part payment for the new light crusiers. She served in WWII with much credit and met a sad end in the hands of Greek cruise liners.

Gollevainen: Interesting model and interesting way to test a new system, kudos.

Argo: mate there have recently emerged some designs that are based on cat carriers and I too have designed a couple, the problem is that no one wants to go past the conventional “Tried and Trusted” mono hull designs. you also must remember that if you have a cat design, it is a new field in this type of design, thus requiring new developments. You no longer need an angled flight deck, thus deck speed is different (true deck speed as opposed to relative deck speed (this is important because of airspeed, airflow over the wings and side slip). Also you have to remember that a Cat Carrier needs to be big enough so that, when a plane lands on one side of the cat, it’s subsequent bouncing does not over balance the ship!

A more important question is: why are all carriers built these days with Starboard islands? Bring back the Port Islands of the Akagi and Kaga style!

yes, its docked at San Diego

Its not the WW2 vintage Midway as the deck is wrong. Thats is at San Diego isn’t it ?

Well the US standarts of what is big and what is small is bit difference than in other parts of the world…

…I mean apart form Kuznetsov/Varyag, Gorgy and De Gaulle, the Wasp class is bigger than other carriers outside USA…

It’s Wasp class LHA Nassau…and what do you mean small marine carrier? I think a 257 meter amphibious ship is quite big…

I mean small as it isn’t exaclty the same size as a Nimitz Class, though, I’ll agree, to say it is small isn’t really true 😮

Why are there no catamaran aircraft carriers? Assuming that they offer more space, speed and stability, one would asume that they would be ideal for aircraft operations, yet I haven’t seen any. Why? Maybe the price? Navy traditon?

And also, are there any carriers that are used to launch UAVs?

It’s Wasp class LHA Nassau…and what do you mean small marine carrier? I think a 257 meter amphibious ship is quite big…

Very intresting thread 🙂

Wonder if any of you could tell what type of carrier this is

If found it looking at the docks in San Diego using Google Earth.

Is this just one of the Marines’ Carriers?

Non, obviously. That’s a model of the Charles de Gaulle

yeah i noticed it :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: forgot only to but smiley after it…

That was the initial scale model used to test the French SATRAP anti-rolling system prior to it being installed in Charled De Gaulle.

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