Let's try to save the Brussels Air Museum collection

Brussels Aviation Hall visit 12/04/08

To those of you thinking of going I visited the museum on Saturday and the aviation hall is open. As noted in one of the above posts the refurbishment work is not due to start for sometime yet although it has high priority. This is a quote from their website:

Quote

‘The authorities have now decided to grant absolute priority to the restoration project. A constructive dialogue has already been established between the Régie des Bâtiments (owner) and the RMM (tenant) and preparatory study is in full swing. Definite plans, concrete projects or precise dates have, however, not yet been established. It is not clear when and to what extent the Hall will have to close down.’

If you are going to visit note that the museum closes for lunch for one hour from noon to 1pm but the aviation hall doesn’t shut and is open all day.

Also, don’t think there aren’t any aircraft elsewhere as there is a Triplane in the WW1 hall and a dramatically posed Spitfire chasing down a V1 in the Contemporary Conflicts hall.

“Stored” aircraft – Belgium

Whatever the right or wrongs or politics of this issue, there is the inescapable fact that the condition and method of their current storage facility is atrocious.
For me, a true picture of a museum’s committment and ability to preserve artefacts is to look at the stuff that is not on show – the unrestored, incomplete and often little-loved chunks that often represent the last vestiges of once-important and noteworthy machines.
My own experience is that it doesn’t take money to do this either. Just a few caring individuals to rack-up and cover components with tarpaulins (if you haven’t got the luxury of a covered space).
If the story of the 1906 steam loco is true (and it certainly seems to be) then you are on a hiding to nothing trying to save stuff in that environment.
It’s as good a case as any I’ve heard where the wrong people are in the wrong job. The people who designed, built and used this machinery, to say nothing of the people who saved it for future generations, have all been well and truly kicked in the teeth.
There are too many examples of this sort of behaviour in all countries (including the good-old UK) and we delude ourselves that we are living in enlightened times at our peril.
No artefact or collection is ever safe but we have one major protective factor here in the UK – the BAPC.
Again, it’s not foolproof but at least everybody knows where just about every airframe is and also its historical value. When an important aircraft is under threat it’s not long before the alarm bells start ringing and everybody hears about it.
I hope the preservation fraternity in Belgium get their act together and funding and help made available to stop this situation getting any worse.
Stuff in private hands is almost impossible to touch (as witnessed in some of the threads on this Forum) but there can be no excuses for government-funded and run organisations behaving this way – but there is more chance of being able to influence their behaviour.

Anon.

Albert,
Willow asked this same question only a couple of weeks ago (he, too, is planning a June visit) but raised no satisfactory answer 🙁
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=79822&highlight=Brussels+Air+Museum
Hope someone can shed some light on this.

Roger Smith.

I contacted the museum via their website and am very pleased to receive this answer:

Dear Sir,

The museum will be open as usual at least until a decision has been made about the restoration of the aviation hall which is not expected to start before 2011.
Entrance is free of charge and the normal closing day is monday.

Sincerely
Alex Peelaers

Albert,
Willow asked this same question only a couple of weeks ago (he, too, is planning a June visit) but raised no satisfactory answer 🙁
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=79822&highlight=Brussels+Air+Museum
Hope someone can shed some light on this.

Roger Smith.

Does anyone know what type of MiG-23 is in storage and where is it from?

Does anyone know what the current status of the Brussels museum is? Is the Aviation Hall open or closed and has restoration of the building began? I am planning on making a visit in June and am concerned I may not get to see the aircraft!

MiG-23

Dear all,

Thanks for your interest and concern.

As proposed, i have inserted below a few more photos to clearly illustrate the real threat facing this unique collection if nothing is done.

Of particular interest is the Mig 23 that has also been scrapped since this photo was taken. It arrived intact and complete a few years ago but was not displayed in the main hall as there was already one there. So, it was sored in the “reserve” where museum staff gradually, and without any reason, removed and lost parts and damaged it when they had to move it. So, in the end, the museum took the “logical” decision to scrap it as it was incomplete (thanks to them) and damaged (thanks to them).

So please, please, once again, sign the petition or even better, write directly to the museum. We, belgians, are unfortunately familiar with this kind of bureaucratic attitude (in this case : no more planes to display = no more problems to manage).

But the good thing is that they usually happen only if they go un-noticed. So, if they start receiving lots of inquieries and questions from all over the world, they will think twice before making any move.

WE NEED YOUR HELP AND SUUPORT !

Thanks,

Laurent

I’m sorry to say that the MiG-23 is still extant today at Museum storage facilities.
Best regards

Obelix

The museum has come back with a statement to all those that signed the statement. Considering the statement is in Dutch and French only I shall translate the statement in full from the Dutch version:

http://www.bamfbamrs.be/pub/Answeraelr.pdf

The petitions have added a response in English. Page 3 of the below PDF file.
http://www.bamfbamrs.be/pub/reponsebamf.pdf

Due to the internet petition the petitioners had a meeting the 7th of june with the Koninklijk Legermuseum (Royal Army Museum, hence referred to as KLM).

Here below follows the statement from General Hardy confirmed february 21st (reference BAMM 133):

1. The KLM has stated a study (emphasis added by KLM) to move the collection to be prepared when the renovation does start.
2. The petitioners arguments concerning the 1914-1918 exhibits where heard. The museum is studying the possibility to keep the exhibits in the museum during renovation. The interest of these precious pieces is the priority of both the KLM and the AELR. (AELR = museum volunteer organisation?)
3. The restauration project will not be handed over to the outgoing government. Because of that the restauration will not start till early 2009 at the earilest (see point 1).
4. Kolonel Musette, recently arrived at the museum, has been given the assignment to look for a potential 2nd KLM site to exhibit the planes that will not return to Brussels.
5. Our restauration projects are continuing as usual. The LVG was disabled for restauration, not to be added into some remote storage!
6. The 12 planes that have to leave are leaving due to a attempt by the board to make the museum historically more interesting. The list was to have been discussed the 31st of may at the board of directors. Due to a time shortage this was not possible. At the petitioners request the list will be put on hold until the petitioners can add their comments. The list is not part of the renovation study, and for these 12 planes the best possible storage fascilities will be arranged.
7. Our AELR will continue to be involved with the project.

Conclusion
The petition is based on unclear, incomplete and wrong information.

Had the petitioners taken the trouble to verify the information, the petition would not have been started. What I find dissappointing is the complete lack of confidence in both the board of directors, the KLM and the board of directors of the AELR. We where publically attacked and disgraced without any thought to potential consequences.

Alex Peelaers
Chairman
Vzw AELR

What a mess….
Yes, I’ve signed the petition.

Tillerman.

Dear all,

Thanks for your interest and concern.

As proposed, i have inserted below a few more photos to clearly illustrate the real threat facing this unique collection if nothing is done.

Of particular interest is the Mig 23 that has also been scrapped since this photo was taken. It arrived intact and complete a few years ago but was not displayed in the main hall as there was already one there. So, it was sored in the “reserve” where museum staff gradually, and without any reason, removed and lost parts and damaged it when they had to move it. So, in the end, the museum took the “logical” decision to scrap it as it was incomplete (thanks to them) and damaged (thanks to them).

So please, please, once again, sign the petition or even better, write directly to the museum. We, belgians, are unfortunately familiar with this kind of bureaucratic attitude (in this case : no more planes to display = no more problems to manage).

But the good thing is that they usually happen only if they go un-noticed. So, if they start receiving lots of inquieries and questions from all over the world, they will think twice before making any move.

WE NEED YOUR HELP AND SUUPORT !

Thanks,

Laurent

I’d like further information on the scrapped steam locos please?
Can you help?
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
………………………………………………………………

Regards
Andy

Andy,
The loco was a McIntosh 0-6-0 no. 44.021 from 1906. There was an article in Steam Railway magazine in no. 275 (Sept 2002). Or so I am reliably informed. It would have been just before her centenary when she was smashed up for scrap. The appeal had substantial financial backing plus that of members of the Scottish Parliament, S.R.P.S. etc etc etc but as far as I recall most attempts at contact were ignored or bluntly dismissed as “not for sale” “not for discussion”. An intensly frustrating and avoidable event.:mad:
Hope it helps
David

Is there not a “Tourism Council” or some such department that could look into these issues? There are enough Plane and Train aficionados around that it could be a major boost to the local economy as well as add funding for upkeep and restoration?! If collections of priceless artifacts are hidden away and not preserved, they are doing the local economy, the country’s heritage, and the citizens in general, a great disservice!

Scrapping artifacts because they already have one in THEIR collection!!! I’d best stop now before I say anything that I shouldn’t.

Thanks for the info on the railway locomotives.
I wasn’t taking a shot at ill informed comment but just trying to nip any xenophobic comments in the bud regarding Belgium or our continental neighbours.
The sort that seem commonplace on these forums and don’t help anyone, least of all the people trying to save a priceless collection.
If I misconstrued the nature of the comment from David then I’m certainly sorry.
Andy

Edit added…
And I appear to have done just that.
I offer a full apology.
Andy.

No apology required Andy my fault for not being clear in my original posting.
Be lucky
David

P.S. Comment on open forum to clear the air and bump the thread:D

Hope it’s not too sad to pass on info on the steam engines fiasco. Belgian has a national railway collection similar to ours at York. There were two, unrestored, engines that they decided were “surplus to requirements” and disposed of them in a pretty terminal way. I believe the engines in question were one designed by the same designer as those of the Caledonian Railway in Scotland and a US built engine from early post WW2 built to replace war damaged stock. Both were duplicated in their collection but were not offered to anyone else. A preservation society in Scotland was very interested in the Scottish engine but never got chance to get it. This was in mid – late 90’s (if not later) I think.

The National Collection itself is kept in an old railway shed in Leuven (where they brew Stella Artois) which is in itself a historic building. It is not open to the public except for a very limited number of open days which never seemed very well publicised. Last I heard the building was under threat of being “redeveloped” as well.

It is another example of Belgian’s lack of respect for it’s heritage at the governmental level, and before the comment is made that it is another uninformed opinion I lived and worked in Belgium for 4 years so am well aware of the local culture and politics!

Thanks for the info on the railway locomotives.
I wasn’t taking a shot at ill informed comment but just trying to nip any xenophobic comments in the bud regarding Belgium or our continental neighbours.
The sort that seem commonplace on these forums and don’t help anyone, least of all the people trying to save a priceless collection.
If I misconstrued the nature of the comment from David then I’m certainly sorry.
Andy

Edit added…
And I appear to have done just that.
I offer a full apology.
Andy.

………………………………………………………..
I don’t think insulting the entire Belgian population is going to help.
…………………………………..

Regards
Andy

Andy et al,
I have edited my original post to avoid any further ambiguity.
Be lucky
David

I’d like further information on the scrapped steam locos please?
Can you help?
I don’t think insulting the entire Belgian population is going to help.

After all, I think this was originally ‘flagged up’ as a problem by people from their own country.

Regards
Andy

Hope it’s not too sad to pass on info on the steam engines fiasco. Belgian has a national railway collection similar to ours at York. There were two, unrestored, engines that they decided were “surplus to requirements” and disposed of them in a pretty terminal way. I believe the engines in question were one designed by the same designer as those of the Caledonian Railway in Scotland and a US built engine from early post WW2 built to replace war damaged stock. Both were duplicated in their collection but were not offered to anyone else. A preservation society in Scotland was very interested in the Scottish engine but never got chance to get it. This was in mid – late 90’s (if not later) I think.

The National Collection itself is kept in an old railway shed in Leuven (where they brew Stella Artois) which is in itself a historic building. It is not open to the public except for a very limited number of open days which never seemed very well publicised. Last I heard the building was under threat of being “redeveloped” as well.

It is another example of Belgian’s lack of respect for it’s heritage at the governmental level, and before the comment is made that it is another uninformed opinion I lived and worked in Belgium for 4 years so am well aware of the local culture and politics!

I guess David was highlighting the ineptitude/unwillingness of certain Belgian authorities…

If you can read French then take a look at the comments on
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/BAM2007/signatures.html .
Yes, the Belgians certainly know how to value their own governmental bodies/organisations!

The term “une petite histoire belge” can be translated as “a typical small Belgian story”. Not exactly flattering…

Or “Petit pays, petite gens”… Small country, small(minded) people… And “people” means “authorities”…

Plus “A usual way they do things in Belgium?? Again!!”…

Thanks for that link.
Yes, I’ve read many of the posts (including the French ones).
Doesn’t make very happy reading.
A.

I guess David was highlighting the ineptitude/unwillingness of certain Belgian authorities…

If you can read French then take a look at the comments on
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/BAM2007/signatures.html .
Yes, the Belgians certainly know how to value their own governmental bodies/organisations!

The term “une petite histoire belge” can be translated as “a typical small Belgian story”. Not exactly flattering…

Or “Petit pays, petite gens”… Small country, small(minded) people… And “people” means “authorities”…

Plus “A usual way they do things in Belgium?? Again!!”…

i signed it to, i never had a chance to visit the museum, but with things this bad, i might never be able to 😡

Seems the Belgians have a long standing problem with history. A couple of years ago they scrapped a number of preserved steam locomotive, one ITIRC was the oldest extant Scottish built loco in the world and subject of a very substantial and well presented appeal to release her to Scotland. Request denied :dev2:
Didn’t they forget we gave thousands of lives to liberate them in WW2 and then refused to help provide supplies for UK forces who were engaged overseas in spite of being NATO members!
Be lucky
David

I’d like further information on the scrapped steam locos please?
Can you help?
I don’t think insulting the entire Belgian population is going to help.

After all, I think this was originally ‘flagged up’ as a problem by people from their own country.

Regards
Andy