Liberator EV902

When I read the report of the accident involving FL994 and compared the pictures I thought it was possibly too much of a coincidence, Happy to have been of help Steve. Yes, quite a coincidence too that both you and your father finished on units numbered 111 – a nice little connection there 🙂

Thanks Mothminor I think you could be 100% correct. I know my father served in the Far East he had campaign medals from Burma and Celyon this must have been before he converted to Liberators. I presumed this was where the accident happened. But I do know he did training in the Caribbean as I have photos of him in the Turks & Cocos Islands. Which I have mistaken for the Cocos islands  of Australia. But the damage in the images in the link is very consistent with the damage in my photos and the coincidence of two aircraft with the same damage is practically impossible. So this must be it. Plus I found another image which I will attach of an aircraft tail turret with the Leigh Light clearly visible on the Stbd wing, which would define the aircraft as being Coastal Command. My father had both ankles broken in the accident so he must have been the sole injury aboard FL994.

Thank you very much for your help in this I really appreciate it. I find it a coincidence I finished my service career on 111 (F) Squadron and my father finished his wartime service on 111 (Coastal) OTU. Thank you again for your invaluable help.

Hi Steve,

Is it possible that the collision happened in the Bahamas rather than the Far East? I wondered if Liberator FL994 might be the aircraft in the pictures? Involved in a mid-air 23.02.45 with BZ746 when with 111 OTU at Nassau.

I have to admit that all I am going on is the code on the nose which I assume must be either LA or JA. FL994 was coded LA.

Details here – https://aircrewremembered.com/hayes-allan.html

Hi Prop Strike thanks for the info. It never occourred to me that the nose leg did not lower causing the nose damage. There is also a lot of damage down the port side of the fuselage from the torn off nose to the waist gun. I looks like it could have happened in the mid air collision. My father told me when they collided the other aircraft was underneath them, it went out of control and crashed. he would never say much more about it apart from how lucky they were to survive.

It is a shame when a forum is redesigned for the worse and long time specialist expertise leave. I might have to go through war records to get the info I am after. 

My intention is to build a 1/48 scale model of the aircraft should I get the info I am after.

Welcome to the forum Steve, and thanks for posting the photos. The first one appears to show the kind of damage one would expect from a landing with no nose-wheel extended, hence the oil drum, I imagine, and engines removed as salvage. .

Some years ago, the hosts of this forum redesigned and relaunched it, to conform with their new expanding business model, and the vast majority of long-time contributors slipped away, unhappy with the new configuration and lack of functionality at that time.  Sadly, we lost the input of many specialists and expert  historians, and have struggled to restore that previous level of expertise,  although the present direction of travel is encouraging. 

I hope that you prompt some useful responses, but now you understand better why specialist and detailed information may not be as readily forthcoming as might have been the case some years ago. 

I know this thread has not been active for some time but I am doing a bit of research on my fathers war service. He was injured in a mid air collision between two Liberators operating in the far east. Possible the Cocos islands. Hence this thread cam up on my search. I know that the other aircraft involved crashed but my fathers survived and landed. Does anyone have any information on this incident I have attached images I found of my fathers aircraft, he was the signaler and broke both ankles in the accident. Sorry he has passed away and this is all the information I have. I would be grateful for any help.

additional info

these info were obtained from aseac.co.uk.

August 1945: On the 7th three 356 Squadron aircraft
attacked an enemy airfield at Benkulen, the navigator
on KN752/F was killed by ground fire. This was the last bombing
mission undertaken by the squadron. On the 11th Wing Commander
Sparks died at the hospital constructed on the Cocos Islands, he had
been ill for ten days with infantile paralysis. Four days later (15th August),
at noon, ‘hostilities ceased’. The Liberators of 356 Squadron
started a series of supply drops to areas in Malaya. On the 18th
two crews (KH218/C and KH270/B) made a daylight drop and one crew
(EW223/Z) made a night drop. The crew of KH218/K failed to return.
Over the next two days eight crews flew out of the Cocos searching
for the missing Liberator. The eight man crew of KH218/C was listed
as missing. On the 21st five aircraft made supply drops to central
Malaya. Two days later five aircraft again flew supplies to central
Malaya. One of the Liberators, KL654/R, failed to return. The eight
crew of KL654/R were listed as missing. Two further supply drops
were made to Malaya (25th; three aircraft and 27th; three aircraft).
On the 28th Operation ‘Birdcage’ (dropping of leaflets to POW camps)
was undertaken and eight Liberator crews flew to various POW camps
in Sumatra and Malaya. Two days later three aircraft dropped supplies
to areas in southern Malaya. On the last day in August Operation ‘Mastiff’
(dropping of Red Cross supplies to POW camps in Sumatra and Malaya) was
undertaken by seven crews.

Shaharom Ahmad
Malaya Historical Group-Researcher

Funny, because the last few times I’ve tried going there, it’s been unavailable. Maybe I’ve just been unlucky. I’ve even had to resort to trying to dig stuff out of the Wayback Machine. How odd.

Don’t need webspace thanks, the website has never been offline (more than a couple of days anyway) are you sure you are using the right url?
http://www.acseac.co.uk
It’s all there still, nothing has been removed.

Excellent, that’s great to hear! You had some fantastic information. If you like, I can lend you some webspace for a mirror until you get your own host up and running again, it will be good to have the information available. Do you have a backup of your forums? Anyway, enough business talk – hope you’re having a good time regardless (it sounds like you have a busy life right now).

Jason (filecore)
www.filecore.net/kl654

It’s a shame Gary Fowkes’ ACSEAC pages have vanished, but I’ve contacted a work colleague of his who might be able to help find out if any of Gary’s material still survives. I’ll post any more news to my website and I’ll try to post it here too.

I’m not dead, I’m still hear and so is the website!! I just moved to the other side of the world and not had time to work on the site. I keep telling myself I’m going to kick start the site again and I will, we (the family) are still exploring New Zealand so not had much time.
As Arnie would say I’LL BE BACK!!

Solved! (I hope.)

To all who have been actively involved in this research: thank you for your hard work over the past months; and to those who were out of the loop, a plate has been found on one of the engines at the crash site with an identifying serial number:

http://www.filecore.net/kl654/s3a.shtml

I hope that this can finally be absolute proof. One final problem which remains is to let the relatives of the crew or the 356 Squadron association know; these details were formerly on Gary Fowkes’ ACSEAC pages which have long since vanished. Can anybody help?

Yes yes, the last thing you need is another forum. However, my site has been consistently up and around for more than four years, while so many (notably acseac.co.uk) have vanished and taken their forums – and all the related information – with them. So, to that end, and if you want it, there’s a forum for KL654 at http://bbs.filecore.net/viewforum.php?f=11

Regards

Jason
http://www.filecore.net/kl654

KL654

Jason, et al,
With regard to the outlining of the registration on the rear fuselage, when I first saw the photographs I did voice my concern that the RAF may not accept it becuase you cannot clearly read it in the original photograph. I must admit that after a few tries at enhancing it I do believe that you can see most of it, but this may be imagination. I am sure that the photograph I obtained of KL654 may help further (Jason has copy) as it clearly shows the markings for 356 Sq.,, the ‘R’ motiff and the registration ‘L654’.
The MHG are making another visit to the aircraft in December and will try to get some engine mumbers, and after collating all this information I hope to present a case to the RAF in January, let’s see what happens!

Out of curiosity, I downloaded Google Earth and tried searching based on what I had on my map of the area. I found the approximate crash site at 2°49’39.84″N, 102° 4’15.49″E but the area is absolutely covered with cloud. However, the geographical features in the area match those on my map: http://www.filecore.net/kl654/ims/map.jpg along with the description I gave on my website. However, it’s worth noting that some of my original lat/longs are very general and not to be relied on – this is the closest I’ve come to a pinpoint location so far.

Edit: for those of you with Google Earth, I have added markers for the supply drop location at Post Langkap, the ridge where KL654 impacted and crashed, and the (approximate) location of the wreckage. You can find links to these markers in Google Earth’s history forum (look for topics beginning with ‘KL654’) at: http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/postlist.php/Cat/0/Board/EarthHistory

Jason
http://www.filecore.net/kl654

I would be inclined to disagree. In my own photo, you can see the battered bit of metal in the dead centre of the picture. In the MHG photo, it’s also there in the centre – but in mine, the red is above and to the left of the battered area, whereas in the MHG picture they have uncovered the word ‘Snake’ above and to the right of the battered area. Also, in both that photo and in my photo of the other side of the fuselage (where the word ‘Snake’ is clearly visible), it’s in black: http://www.filecore.net/kl654/liberator-gallery/Albums/Album1/Large/P20.jpg

As I wrote on my site regarding the word ‘Snake’ (at the bottom of http://www.filecore.net/kl654/s2.shtml):

“There was also the word Snake written on the side of the aircraft just forward of the tailplane near to where the serial number should have been, and a large red R also near this on the fuselage. The red R is the aircraft designation, hence KL654/R. There is some debate currently about the meaning of the word “Snake”; Ron van Donkelaar believes that the word was a kind of ‘tag’ applied before shipping or ferrying the aircraft to southeast Asia to prevent the aircraft being, as he says, ‘acquired’ by the middle east theatre forces. It therefore simply emphasizes delivery to the SEAC. Gary Fowkes, on the other hand, tells me that “Snake” meant that the plane was modified for jungle flying and was commonly painted on aircraft heading to the Far East, to hasten their delivery – this is similar in some regards to Ron’s explanation. But regradless of the word’s meaning, it served also to confirm immediately that this was an RAF aircraft.”

Jason
http://www.filecore.net/kl654

Mysterious red text – Snake. :confused:

Because it has eroded or because it is there?

The stencil ‘Snake’ meaning that it was to be delivered to nowhere but the Far East – SEAC and not diverted along the route.

Mark

Well it’s nice to see that I’m so famous! Things have been happening recently (finally!). I have added the Malaya Historical Group’s findings to my site, and have been in touch with a military official who is Deputy Defence Adviser to the FCO based in Kuala Lumpur, who may be able to help. Let’s hope that we can get this solved quickly!

The MHG’s findings can be seen here: http://www.filecore.net/kl654/s3a.shtml

It’s a shame Gary Fowkes’ ACSEAC pages have vanished, but I’ve contacted a work colleague of his who might be able to help find out if any of Gary’s material still survives. I’ll post any more news to my website and I’ll try to post it here too.

Incidentally, I’m curious about the MHG’s cleaning of the fuselage. I know exactly where it is – I stood in the same spot as they did and took a photo of my own. Here are the two photos to compare:

Mine (2001): http://www.filecore.net/kl654/liberator-gallery/Albums/Album1/Source/P27.jpg
Note the mysterious red text.

MHG (2006): http://www.filecore.net/kl654/ims/s3a/writing_after.jpg
Note the lack of mysterious red text.

This is something I would like to look more into. However, I’m no longer sure if it’s power of suggestion or not, but I’m fairly sure I can pick out the “L654” in this photo (MHG 2006): http://www.filecore.net/kl654/ims/s3a/writing_before.jpg

Regards

Jason Togneri
http://www.filecore.net/kl654

planetrace and all..

yes. we did send several digital photos to you and Robert Quirk about the current wrecks condition plus the exact – yes the exact proof id of KL654 faded away on her fuselage and we did shot before and after we outline it with charcoal ( burned trees due to the her crashed fire ) and I assumed that the outline will gone soon.

I think RAF giving more excuses not to visit the sites. And we aware that the site were regularly visited by trekkers who climb the nearest peak and visited the site. Most of her parts were taken away. I found one reading glass and one hidden oxigen bottles to save away.

They should ask someone at British High Comm at Kuala Lumpur to visit the site with us and check the fuselage ID to check whether the number stenciled on her fuselage were fake or real.

Hope to hear more from you all.

Shaharom Ahmad
Malaya Historical Group – Researcher

Albatross,
Yes Bob is THE expert on Liberators and I have also contacted him on numerous occasions regarding them, but the problem with KL654 is what the RAF will accept as proof that the wreck is KL654. They have been presented with photographs of the wreck with the ‘R’ suffix and rejected it. The problem with the latest photographs is that they show the registration after it is outlined, but it is not clear on the photographs taken prior to this. I am not being a stick in the mud but can see what the RAF may require. In saying that I now have a photograph of KL654 taken a few days before the crash and it clearly shows the ‘L654’ part of the registration and the ‘R’ sufix. Maybe now the RAF will accept this as proof.