Licensed or Unlicensed?

Thanks for your thoughts, Melvyn and Janie 😉

Questions like this often pop up. My standard answer is – ask the insurance company. They are really the only ones who will know.

Whilst on an insurance theme. Are you aware that your car’s insurance is not valid if it is taken airside? (It’s OK in the car park) It is possible, so long as you ask, to get your aviation insurance company to cover it for 3rd party. I.e. if you damage an aeroplane with your car, the aircraft is covered, but it is downright risky for the car.

If sure you would, and so would I! However, what I am getting at is the following:

Suppose for example you are deliberately landing with a perfectly serviceable aircraft on an unlicensed runway, and say a wheel gets caught in rut and the aircraft is damaged. A typical insurance company over here would claim gross negligence/recklessness and refuse to pay, since you were deliberately landing on a non-approved runway….

I am not trying to split hairs, but merely curious as to what the real implications of licensed/unlicesed are…. 🙂

Unlikely to happen as the runway would have previously existing use as a runway and so a claim of recklessness could not stick. Being licenced is not a legal requirement for a runway and so the insurance company would have a hard job making that one stick, or at least they SHOULD have a hard job. After all, many people fly from strips and that is legal and, as Janie hinted, precautionary landings in fields are part of the training (if not actually doing it then practicing for it) so the practice must be accepted.

I have to admit I don’t know what the ins and outs of licenced or unlicenced runways are (although as I remember someone has pointed us all at the relevant documentation) but I don’t think insurance requirements are parts of it.

MH

if my insurance company didn’t pay up following a crash landing in a field (which is not a licensed runway either!) I would be pretty upset

If sure you would, and so would I! However, what I am getting at is the following:

Suppose for example you are deliberately landing with a perfectly serviceable aircraft on an unlicensed runway, and say a wheel gets caught in rut and the aircraft is damaged. A typical insurance company over here would claim gross negligence/recklessness and refuse to pay, since you were deliberately landing on a non-approved runway….

I am not trying to split hairs, but merely curious as to what the real implications of licensed/unlicesed are…. 🙂

It is possible to have a licensed runway at an airfield offering only an A/G service I believe?

Stapleford too. I think one reason they were downgraded from “Information” to “Radio” was because the AFISO was unable to see the runway from their ground-level tower.

Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert Dibble and Grub

Excellent!

Don’t forget that licensing also includes things like fire cover.

You can therefore have a licenced runway that becomes unlicenced at 17:00 when the men from Trumpton go home.

Moggy

We have fire cover when we use Brooklands. When I am commentating there I usually try to get the thankyou’s in before everyone goes home (like the volunteers, St John’s Ambulance etc.) and one time I announed that I was going to thank the fire crew individually.

It had to happen really . . . .

“So, ladies and Gentlemen, please put your hands together for:
Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert Dibble and Grub”

well, it made me laugh.

MH

It is possible to have a licensed runway at an airfield offering only an A/G service I believe? 😮

Thruxton is a case in point.

Melvyn

Kenneth:

I don’t know the answer to that, but if my insurance company didn’t pay up following a crash landing in a field (which is not a licensed runway either!) I would be pretty upset.

If you crash, damage your aircraft and/or cause 3rd party damage when using an unlicensed runway will your insurance pay up, or refuse with the argument that you were using an unlicensed runway?

Hey, I hardly ever post!

We’ve noticed. Pitiful!
😀

Their you go, I told you Glen would know!! Cheers Glen, see you at the weekend. 😀

I seem to remember it being ‘Kemble Tower’ before the licence, I am sure that Glen could clear this one up.

Licensing has little to do with the type of air traffic service at smaller airfields. Kemble used to be “Kemble Radio” which denotes that it is only an Air/Ground station. We changed to “Kemble Information” which pilots will know offers a flight information service, around a year or more prior to the airfield being licensed.

It is possible to have a licensed runway at an airfield offering only an A/G service I believe? 😮

Kemble’s currently Kemble Information, can anybody remember if it was Info before they got their licence?

I seem to remember it being ‘Kemble Tower’ before the licence, I am sure that Glen could clear this one up.

Don’t forget that licensing also includes things like fire cover.

You can therefore have a licenced runway that becomes unlicenced at 17:00 when the men from Trumpton go home.

Moggy

You’re welcome. Licensing covers things like fire crews as well — you need to have one to have a licence, although RFF category ‘special’ is a bit more relaxed to make life easier for little airfields like ours.

I’m not aware of any unlicensed airfields with Tower frequencies as opposed to Radio. Kemble’s currently Kemble Information, can anybody remember if it was Info before they got their licence?

“One’s got a license, and the other hasn’t.

Well you asked for it “

Ya know,when I was writing this thread starter,I thought about putting “and don’t say coz one’s got a license and the other hasn’t”,but then I thought “Nah,nobody would stoop so low”. 😉 😀
Thanks for the explaination Met24,that makes things clearer.I had thought for a long time that it applied to airfield facilities rather than runways,eg whether there were any fire crews,airfield control,customs etc.,.Thanks again 🙂

Hey, I hardly ever post!

CAP 168 ‘Licensing of Aerodromes’ will tell you more than you want to know, but it’s to do with the CAA having inspected the runway and being satisfied that it meets various criteria. One of the things they check is making sure that there are no obstacles in the approach/climb-out areas. For instance, at Little Gransden we have one licensed runway (that includes an unlicensed starter extension at the eastern end! — effectively the threshold is displaced due to a road and a hedge at the eastern boundary), and two unlicensed runways that have large trees or power lines in the way. I’m sure there are more things they look at too.

If you’re training for a PPL, you’re not allowed to operate into/out of unlicensed airfields — certainly if you’re solo, and possibly even if dual. There are certain exemptions for microlights if I remember rightly.