OK all, this is just a bit of fun, so I’d like to avoid getting into any more scraps about the relative capabilities of the aircraft and whether it was ever likely to enter service or not or wheher this or that was better or would it have been a world beater or just bilnded all it crews with vinration??
My question is this: Had the TSR2 gone into squadron service, which squadrons might it have equipped? Would it have replaced V-bombers or Canberras in some units? Or would some have gone to converted fighter squadrons more used to Mach 2 capable hot ships like Lightnings?
Secondly, as the nuclear strike role was downgraded, what weapons might it have carried or other roles might it have adopted? Recon, sure, but what about maritime strike? Or would they have quickly become expensive target tugs??
Then there’s colour schemes. Xtradecal has come up with a raft of ideas which mainly seem to echo Buccaneer and Tornado schemes, but might 60s TSR2s have taken on similarly colourful paintwork to their stablemate, the Lightning? (OK, I admit I just want to paint my Airfix TSR2 like the 111 squadron Lightnings… am I being stupid?)
And the last, and most contentious… What would it have been called? I can’t imagine it would have not had a name in service. My guess would be someting like ‘Thunder’ to match its older, smaller brother and with a nod to the Vulcan. Or something alliterative like other aircraft manufacturers were going for… say, ‘Beowulf’ (not many Anglo Saxon names in UK aircraft industry) or something Arthurian like ‘Gawain’ or ‘Galahad’.
Over to you…
By: XN923 - 24th January 2006 at 13:50
stratos 4 has it’s good bit’s, like well modeled tsr2’s [on the out side], i’m not sure how the real test pilots would have liked the seating though [motor cycle style],and i’m not sure how the tsr2 would have handled at over 100,000 feet.
also when were tsr2’s truck takeoff with jato and normal landing
paul
Might be an interesting subject for someone to model for the ‘Sci Fi’ category at the IPMS Worlds…
By: oz rb fan - 24th January 2006 at 13:45
light hearted tsr2 what-iffery
stratos 4 has it’s good bit’s, like well modeled tsr2’s [on the out side], i’m not sure how the real test pilots would have liked the seating though [motor cycle style],and i’m not sure how the tsr2 would have handled at over 100,000 feet.
also when were tsr2’s truck takeoff with jato and normal landing
paul
By: TEXANTOMCAT - 20th January 2006 at 11:57
J Boyle – well, close – nowadays they are used for sweeping meteors away from the Earth, having been fitted with a rocket engine in the tail… http://stratos4.nte.be
DB how the hell did you find that -you werent surfing for those specialist manga websites again> it does your shutter finger no good you know…
By: XN923 - 20th January 2006 at 11:52
J Boyle – well, close – nowadays they are used for sweeping meteors away from the Earth, having been fitted with a rocket engine in the tail… http://stratos4.nte.be
Hmm, uncanny. Destiny Angel eat your heart out. I wonder if all the crews would have been that attractive?
A look at the RAF website seems to bear out the suggestion that Phantom/Buccaneer units would have been the ones to be equipped with TSR2s, but I’d love to see a 617 squadron TSR2 with the lightning bolts on the tail, or a 111 squadron version with the black tail and yellow trim (which they did of course add to their Phantom FG1s…)
Though I doubt they would have been so marked, I’d love to see a Lighting style polished metal finish with brightly coloured tail surfaces and badges. What about a 56 squadron TSR2???
By: J Boyle - 20th January 2006 at 05:22
Not knocking the aeroplane but it has become such an icon of the “60s” (in the same way as an E-type)…I expect to see “THUNDERBIRDS” painted on the side. 😀
By: Smith - 20th January 2006 at 00:59
OK all, this is just a bit of fun, so … would it have been a world beater or just bilnded all it crews with vinration??
Off topic … but on content. In the 80’s I was an avid follower of the World Rally Championship … this is during the time of the Group B “supercars” which were real-road F1 cars of sorts. IIRC I heard an interview with Walter Rohl or Hannu Mikkola, or was it Stig? I think it was Walter. Anyway, one or the other of these august fellows made the observation that an AUDI Quattro Sport S1 (this is the last fire-breathing monster before the GpB cars were banned) was so jarring on full song on rough roads (think Acropolis Rally in Greece) that you [driver] literally couldn’t see and relied 100% on pace notes – turn left …….. NOW.
By: WebPilot - 19th January 2006 at 23:36
The RAF Yearbook article I mentioned was in the 1976 edition and was titled “Wings Clipped & Cancelled”, should anyone be sufficiently interested.
By: RPSmith - 19th January 2006 at 17:48
bird of prey names were associated very firmly with Rolls Royce!
Don’t forget Miles!
Roger Smith.
By: Mr Creosote - 19th January 2006 at 15:47
I read somewhere that “Trenchard” was seriously considered as a name.
By: XN923 - 19th January 2006 at 14:38
Thanks. Some interesting suggestions on that forum, and yet… and yet…
I don’t buy ‘Tornado’ as it was the name of a Hawker aircraft (the RR Vulture engined Typhoon prototype) and therefore Typhoon wouldn’t fit either. ‘Merlin’ was suggested as very nearly the name of the F-111 in RAF service, but I doubt any ‘bird’ names would have been chosen for fear of narking Bristol Siddeley – bird of prey names were associated very firmly with Rolls Royce! So that goes for ‘Eagle’ as well…
Thinking about it, I think Vickers would have objected to ‘Thunder’ as being too close to the ‘Lightning’ (history seems to have shown that the Vickers part of BAC jealously guarded the TSR2 project from any kind of perceived EE ownership – refusing to sanction the test flights from Warton for example)…
So that doesn’t leave us with much. Although I did like the spurious suggestion of ‘Excalibur’ someone made! Though perhaps if we’re talking swords, ‘Damocles’ might have been more appropriate…
By: TEXANTOMCAT - 19th January 2006 at 13:34
Assume you have seen these fab decals as posted on a previous thread
http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=X72060
cool huh?
TT
By: WebPilot - 19th January 2006 at 09:51
The Phantom was purchased to fill the TSR2/F111 gap as was the Buccaneer, so I guess some of the original F4 units might have been TSR2 units had history been different.
I’d imagine the airframe would have made a very good basis for a cold war interceptor or recce type so fighter and PR units may also have been recipients. And colour schemes – green/grey with toned down roundels, I suppose. Dull but that’s pretty much what everything wore in the 70s.
As to its name, BAC had no “tradition” of aircraft naming conventions to draw on, so either they might have gone to one of their predecessor companies – maybe Bristol. BAC Bulldog 2? BAC Beaufighter 2?
Great post!
BTW the RAF Yearbook several years back carried a very interesting “what if” article on how the RAF might have looked if certain aircraft procurement decisions had not been made. I can’t remember which year but will try to remember to search it out tonight.
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January 19, 2006 at 9:33 am