Link-11/16 v CEC

Data fusion + second captain? :diablo:

As I understand, an advantage of CEC is that the composite images formed of an enemy’s current position can be used for targeting purposes across an entire fleet.

Wouldn’t it be possible to replicate much of these benefits with purpose-built datalink systems, like the one from a ship to AEW helo(for SSM and SAM target acquisition) and the ones linked with SSM fire control radars from ship to ship for OTH SSM targeting(like the Russian Garpun-B, Mineral-ME and Western counterparts like the RAN-30S)?

Thanks for your answers, very enlightening. A pitty some others dont come here first before they get on a high horse and start going off on one.

Dave

I’m not very knowledgeable on this subject what options are there for this in terms of AEW assets that can provide data to various other assets such as surface vessels and aircraft?

Can these LM pods provide the same level of capability as Searchwater?

Supposedly so. The AESA arrays are meant to be being modified with a ‘gimbal’ to allow for each pod to cover a full hemisphere and the array is certainly powerful enough to deliver range performance suitable for the mission profile. Theoretically then, with the interesting potential for OTH fire-control and electronic attack lent by the AESA tech, the LM solution offers a lot.

If we can get the T45’s cleared for Merlin the potential combination of airborne surveillance/fire-control and Sea Viper on the AAW picket could reduce the threat of anything flying a sea-skimming antiship profile, to RN ships, to the point where its no more advantageous than a medium or high alt approach. The trick would be to allow Vigiliance to ‘gather’ the outbound Sea Ceptor/Sea Viper after launch…not an insolvable problem though I wouldn’t have thought and the potential benefits……!!!.

The interesting thing is that I believe LM are in the driving seat for Crowsnest by dint of their work on Merlin HM2. So this, quite exciting, prospect could be a goer!.

What I should have added is that an AEW asset providing fire control accuracy tracking data to T45s is something different again and would be enormously valuable. However that is a much more complex topic, and the first priority is to get the AEW asset

I’m not very knowledgeable on this subject what options are there for this in terms of AEW assets that can provide data to various other assets such as surface vessels and aircraft?

Can these LM pods provide the same level of capability as Searchwater?

What I should have added is that an AEW asset providing fire control accuracy tracking data to T45s is something different again and would be enormously valuable. However that is a much more complex topic, and the first priority is to get the AEW asset

Agree with Prom.

LINK allows component nodes to put a track developed by its sensors into the LINK plot for general distribution to all LINK receivers. CEC takes this one step further by deriving a full composite sensor picture from all netted units.

Simplest way to think about it is that LINK is like you posting information from your hard-drive on this forum. With CEC I just read whats on your hard-drive directly.

With the fused picture you get the obvious advantage of seeing a plot that your ownship sensors couldn’t develop as it will add in dispersed and airborne assets and you can react to them, from the appropriate firing platform, as a single ‘virtual’ combat system.

Its clever, but, limited value for the price. As explained for us real world instances where it would allow for otherwise out of envelope shots are limited. A non-SAMPSON ship is going to be limited in the cueing it can provide to a Daring for example. In coalition ops perhaps an APAR or AEGIS ship could provide guidance updates with the required resolution but surely they’d take the shot themselves.

Personally I’d rather see the money spent investigating the LM Vigilance pods capabilities in guiding ARH missiles. Based on a fighter radar able to update BVRAAMs already and with Vigilance proposed for Merlin already I think that offers far more interesting prospects for horizon-ignorant SAM coverage able to support ‘silent’ Sea Viper and Sea Ceptor shooters.

There is a lot of crap talked about CEC Dave so be careful what you believe. In short, Link 11/16 allow the sharing of general situational awareness of all sensor data. Whereas CEC allows the sharing and indeed improvement of fire control accuracy data. Thus the latter has less lag, better accuracy but less scope.

Given the sharing of fire control accuracy tracks, it allows a ship to fire on a target it has not even detected yet.

This all sounds great and sexy, but when you factor in the geometry of real world situations then usable cases become fewer than you might imagine. For obvious reasons, in the majority of cases, a unit that can detect and track a target is more likely to be the one who is best able to engage than one which has not (yet). That is not true in all cases of course, but in those cases it does not always add much value

Many claim it should be fitted to QEC for example. But QEC has no weapons that could take advantage of it, and is likely to detect threats after her escorts do. So the geometry suggests she is the last ship that needs CEC, but of course desperately needs L11/16 (which she will have)

CEC is also more expensive than is claimed, the unit cost ignores the huge development and integration cost for incorporating into RN.

I used to be an advocate of CEC, but the more i learned, the more I felt that in these cost constrained times, there are more pressing needs. But once QEC and Trident II is paid for, and the technology has matured a bit, I might be convinced again