Little help…if you mind…

Well not ships built today offcourse, we have partially lost that market area… 🙁 …but in the old days, Finland was the main (but not the sole) supplyer of icestrenghted ships…now we only build luxur liners to carribean…

That cannot be true Gollevainen, as that container vessel is still to be built and tested, yet already developed and ordered. And indeed some of their ice breakers and tugs are indeed built in Finland. Nonetheless they are doing that very same work themselves nowadays, there is a new icebreaker on the way.
You are talking about normal ice class ships, with no altered construction, only a strengthened bow and structure to break through a not so large ice layer. The one they developed has something like 3-5m thick layers of ice.
Trident, I sought for more info including a search with the name of the vessel and so on, nothing found. I’ll have to ask some special people I suppose.

Sevmorput is built in Kerch, back in the Soviet days as a LASH ship, a barge carrier. She’s 260m long and 32m wide.

Thanks for that pic Neptune, totally awesome 😀 Any more info? I’d also like to know more about Sevmorput, that nuclear container vessel. Where was it built (it’s pretty large, IIRC)?

and all types of Ice Class vessels, strengthened hulls etc. There is a growing demand to Russia though, some Dutch company along with some other European companies are ordering these special ships. There is now a certain type of container ship that acts as an icebreaker. It sails forward in normal waters like a normal container vessel, but goes backwards when in ice, as her stern is built like an icebreaker bow. It of course has a special bridge lay-out and arrangments, but a good idea nonetheless.

Most of the russian/soviets Icebreakers and those ice-breaking container vessels that you mentioned were build in Finland including one of the biggest, Taimyr class.

This one maybe? Someone tried to copy HMS Conveyor :dev2:

Anyway, they don’t build them. The largest things they build are about 40,000ts, peanuts compared to real merchant ships.
Sovcomflot is probably the largest customer of them.
Now the good news, they have a few “special ships”, they build certain special types of ships like Nuclear material carriers, riverine tankers, and all types of Ice Class vessels, strengthened hulls etc. There is a growing demand to Russia though, some Dutch company along with some other European companies are ordering these special ships. There is now a certain type of container ship that acts as an icebreaker. It sails forward in normal waters like a normal container vessel, but goes backwards when in ice, as her stern is built like an icebreaker bow. It of course has a special bridge lay-out and arrangments, but a good idea nonetheless.

Sorry for bumping this old topic but,

No, TinWing is partially right. Initially it was project 10200 ASW helicopter carrier, based on the hull of Projekt 1609 “Kapitan Smirnov” fast container ship.

speaking of container ships, are there any sources on Soviet designed/built merchant vessels?

well it said anchar, and Im not so good in russian to figure that pre-surfix out…so thanks for correcting me…

about that pre-moskva ship…it reminded me of this:

One of the early design from the TsKB-17…

im not sure, but this migth be (or at least an impression of one) the projected Anchar class nuclear powered escort…

This is a link to a thread on Project 1123, a pre-Moskva helicopter carrying cruiser design study. Is this of the same vintage as your drawing?

http://rfforces.net/viewtopic.php?t=2157

im not sure, but this migth be (or at least an impression of one) the projected Anchar class nuclear powered escort…

That’s even pre-Anchar project of AD ship from 1959 with Kolleopter VL SAM.
Did You get it from here:http://pvo.guns.ru/naval/nb_navy.htm?
I’m also sorry that I may have mixed You up. From the posts in Meteorit’s link it seems that 10200 and 11780 are rather contemporary rival projects and not an evolution. Do You need translation from Russian or You can read it Yourself?

Is this the page you were after: http://rfforces.net/viewtopic.php?t=1736&sid=63d8a6acdcadef4e63aabca5b751854e ?

As we are on the topic of cancelled Soviet carries, would anyone happen to have any information about the Pr.1199 and Pr.1293 projects? All I know is that they were intended as nuclear-powered Aegis-type escort destroyers for the Pr.1160 and possibly Pr.1143.7 (Ulyanovsk) carriers.

Yes, that’s it. I’ll check at GSPO site, if they have deleted the theme or just archived it, as the links to them doesn’t work and come back later, also regarding Your project numbers.

im not sure, but this migth be (or at least an impression of one) the projected Anchar class nuclear powered escort…

I’ve read opinion arguing that Pr.1941 was built in hull of unfinished Kirov class cruiser (Pr.1144). The reasoning was that Nikolaev slip was occupied all the time by 1143 class and Kapusta was also built in St.Peterburg by Baltisky Zavod as Kirov’s. In fact, there were two more Kirov cruisers started but they were never really laid down less launched. Kapusta has wider beam by 2.5m and is around 20m longer, it has different reactors and powerplant, so this version is also just another story from MiB.

Unfortunately the link of Russian federation forces at rfforces.com is broken, so it may be that there are no more sources on 10200 and 11780 in the Web.

Is this the page you were after: http://rfforces.net/viewtopic.php?t=1736&sid=63d8a6acdcadef4e63aabca5b751854e ?

As we are on the topic of cancelled Soviet carries, would anyone happen to have any information about the Pr.1199 and Pr.1293 projects? All I know is that they were intended as nuclear-powered Aegis-type escort destroyers for the Pr.1160 and possibly Pr.1143.7 (Ulyanovsk) carriers.

….BTW here’s the site saying the kapusta/1153 relations…

http://www.radiationworks.com/nuclearships.htm#ural

Originally designed as Project 1153 – a new nuclear powered full -deck aircraft carrier – construction was suspended in 1983 when 50% completed and put aside for 5 years when when it was decided the hull was too small to launch aircraft and the catapult system designed for the ship failed. The hull was then used for the Ural Project #1941 “Titan” (Nato Codename “Kapusta” ). Officially designated ‘Sudno Suyazyy’ (Communications Vessel). She has since been laid up and is in used as a powerplant on the Pacific coast.

That’s strange, I have quite a good set of pictures from IMDS-2003, including models of Kapusta and Slava, but no Halzan or 11780. Unfortunately, Pavlov’s book was not my own, so I will have to ask if it’s still available.

I know that the last pic was a khalzan, not the 11780…i was just sceptic about the relations of the two. But you sorted that one out.

I orginally find the pic of both 11780 and the Khalzan form some spanish military forum, which didn’t give much info beside the pics. only this: Salón Naval Internacional de San Petersburgo en el año 2003 St. petersburg international naval exhibition 2003??

Did the Pavlov’s book give any aditional data on either one Kahlzan or this 11780? like legth, displacement, whidt, machinery and so on?

Gollevainen, these are pics of 10200 Halzan ASW hel carrier, not of the 10780. Just compare these with the pics posted by TinWing and note where the island superstructure is situated on Your pics and where it is on 10780 pics.
10780 was designed in mid-80’s as a follow on to 1174, using also design elements of 10200 and 1143.4. Murena class LCACs were meant to be carried by 10780. As these ships were never built, already built Murenas were transferred to border guards. 11780 is mentioned in one of A.S.Pavlov’s naval referrence books in beginning of 1990’s as “Kremenchug” class UDK (Universalnij desantnij korablj). It’s appearance at some naval defence show is possibly linked to efforts to market it in China or India. Could You please find the name of that exhibition and year?
Unfortunately the link of Russian federation forces at rfforces.com is broken, so it may be that there are no more sources on 10200 and 11780 in the Web.

There could be some point there snake, but this 11780 pics are from russian military expo form the few years back, so it’s lot more newer than just an eigtyes design. Also it’s lot larger (someone saying it being size of Tarawa) than Khalzan which didn’t even have a hangar. None of my sources form the Khalzan have ever mentioned anything continious development of it so this possiple link between these two ships (if it ends up being true) is greatly appriciated….

Here is few other pics of the Khalzan:

No, TinWing is partially right. Initially it was project 10200 ASW helicopter carrier, based on the hull of Projekt 1609 “Kapitan Smirnov” fast container ship. It was really intended to be a cheaper rival for 1143.5 but in fact came out nearly as expensive and complex, additionally it was too noisy and didn’t meet military requirements for structural strength and damage control. Therefore, when 1143.5 was preferred, Halzan was re-designed into 11780 fast landng ship. After addition of SAMs and ability to handle Yak-38 it’s displacement was already around 45kt. It was deemed to be too expensive and anyway the only avilable slip for ship of such size was occupied by 1143.5. So, this is not a new design, but rather from the end of 1980’s

Well the Khalzan project is completely different thing than the 11780. Khalzan was a ASW helicopter carrier concept form the early eighty’s for cheaper alternative for Kuznetsov…i willl tell more about it in the actuall essey (which now appears that it must be posted in here also…)

The 11780 in other hands is new russian amphibious design…

Warships1.com

At least to me that site haven’t worked for years now…but i have quite much data on the 1153 alone (and yeas the all possiple photos..) , just wanted to clear the kapusta relations, thats all…But thanks anyway…