Log Book entries

Kev, You are a mine of information.:)
many thanks for your assistance.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

That would be No 4 Radio School at Madeley. I presume his time there would be an hour building and experience gathering exercise following his previous poor reports. Although, at that time of the war Bomber Command’s losses were lessening and the supply of aircrew was greatly increased so I suppose it is conceivable he was sent there as a pilot while awaiting an OTU course.

Regards,

kev35

Kev, my mistake re Proctors, he flew many flights in this type from 4 R.S. MADLEY, from May 25th. I must have made a mistake, as there was so much info to type.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

What was I thinking about, of coarse, you are right. One cannot change History;)
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Jim

He survived the war. You wrote that he was taken off night flying in late October 1945. The war was already over by then.

Regards,

kev35

Kev, I agree with your findings re this mans log. Nothing to suggest he too saw any action against the enemy, there were mention of bombing practice, but not where, so you are more than likely right on that score.

I will have to talk to the guy who loaned me the book, to see if his father did indeed survive the War, there is a very good indication, from the entries, that he did.
Thanks for your input, researching these things as you do comes in very handy at times like this.
I have no doubt whatsoever the man was trained as stated in the log, as each place where he was seen and trained, was seen by the Station C.O. advised and his log book stamped and remarks made by his C.O. entered.
If it were my book, I would gladly loan it to you, unfortunately it’s not.
As for scrotes Kev, you know the “Sort” of scrotes I mean, with a Crime list as long as your arm, just the sort who the Army just wouldn’t employ, even in Afghanistan.
Thanks again.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Jim.

Reading through that reveals, at least to me, that he never flew any bombing raids against the Germans. Read it through carefully and compare dates and you’ll see why I say this.

Going back to Feb. ’44, 11(P)AFU is Pilot’s Advanced Flying Unit. You say 4 Squadron on Proctors? The Squadron never flew them so it must have been some other unit. You state clearly that he qualified as a heavy bomber pilot on the 1st of May 1945 and then joined 170 Squadron. You will, of course, be aware that the European war ended on 8th May 1945. You’re probably not aware that 170 Squadron flew their last raid of the war to Berchtesgarden on 25th April 1945, a week before your man qualified HCU (Heavy Conversion Unit). Whilst it now seems apparent that he did not fly against the Germans operationally, it is likely that on joining the Squadron in Early May 1945 that he flew with them on operations to drop much needed food supplies to the Dutch who, in the East of Holland, were facing starvation. The Squadron was also involved in the transportation of Allied prisoners of war back from Germany.

The mention of the word raid earlier in the log book is most probably the practice bombing raids carried out across the UK whilst flying with the OTU (Operational Training Unit) on Wellingtons or the HCU on Lancasters.

I must apologise for possibly confusing you in my earlier posts. When a log book was filled in correctly, there are two columns, one for day and one for night. If you flew operationally against the enemy then the number of hours was filled in in red ink (I think the whole entry might have been in red actually) which also points to the fact that he did not fly in action against the enemy.

I’m really not trying to rain on either your (or Mr. Coveney’s) parade, just trying to explain my understanding of your latest post.

Now compare those brave chaps and women to the towrags that roam our streets nowadays. Don’t bear thinking about.

Bear in mind that the Country then was in extremis. We are not in that situation now. Just remember that some of those toerags walking the streets not that long ago are now walking the streets of Afghanistan, and paying the price. Times now are different but, if push come to shove, I suspect a surprisingly large number of today’s toerags would not be found wanting.

Edited to add that I am in no way trying to diminish Mr. Coveney’s service to his Country. Had the war gone on any longer in Europe then he would have seen action against Germany.

Regards,

kev35

Kev and Moggs. This is a brief, not a ful extract of a few salient points. Kev, No raids were entered in red, just black ink.
The Bleu log book was issued to him by the Royal Canadian Airforce.
From Aug to Sept he was with 6BFTS (1942)Ponca City.
Feb 1942 signed off training by a W.L. Stevens.Feb 42 flew solo in P.T. 17s 1.3.1943 signed off PT 17s by W.L. Stevens.
April43 signed off P.T. 17s and Link training by same Officer.
Primary report for the end of May, reads, ” Judgement of landings Drift correction,Poor speed sense, (Seems he kept overshooting runway) On a scale of 1 to 4, rated 3, and average.June, Flew AT6A by self.
7thJuly, Joined 4 BTFS 1943 night flying, kept overshooting runway.
Map reading flying to Sharon,Castletown,Potwin,Ponca City,And practised BTO beam Approach.
Same night flying over Perry,Anthony,Ponca City. Sawyer.Pawhuska.and Mulvane.practicing deflection turnes.
4th Sept.Night flying. Ponca City.Mulvane.Perry.
13th. Night flying. Wichita. and evasive action practice.
At the end of Sept,He was told he had a lack of co ordination, by his C.O.and poor on instrument reading,@ 6 BFTS he had a running total of 220hrs and 20 mins Training.
Feb 1944.Joined 11 PAFU ?.
March. 12 circuits and landings at Polebrook.
All of April, flying OxfordsAt Polebrook.but 12 to 17th April also did Beam Approach at Cranage.and was qualified asAFN Pilot (Whats that?)
Next at 4 Sqdrn On Proctors.@ Hadley.
All of August flying Domminies.
23rd Sept, solo on Tiger Moth.
Oct and Nov flying Domminies.
Qualified at Madlley as SE/TE pilot…Jan 45 14 OTU Heavy Bomber pilot.April 45 1668 HCU Bottesford.1st May, qualified as H.B. Pilot
May 1945 170 Sqdrn Hemswell flew, Lancs, F.G.L.T. 24.10.45 told no more night flying due to colour blindness.Daylight only.Dec 5th O.Y.U.Mkt Harborough.priot to the lancs he flew,Wellingtons. R.F.Q.L on raids, but no mention of where in Log book.
Thiis is just a small amount of info gleaned from his book, I am unaware of his discharge, assuming he wasn’t K.I.A. Hopefully not.
Taking into all the aircraft he flew prior to flying the Lancs, it took a hell of a long time to train, and then perhaps get shot down and klled.on the first mission.
Some would not say “The good old days” I have now a better understanding as to why these veterans who survived the War are reluctant to talk about it.
Hope you too have had an insight as to what it took to become a Bomber pilot, not only in Wellingtons, but all the others, whatever they flew.
Now compare those brave chaps and women to the towrags that roam our streets nowadays. Don’t bear thinking about.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Looks like 170 Squadron then.

An A R Coveney was promoted from Pilot officer to Flying Officer on 2nd September 1945. His service number was different though, being 195177.

Edited to add that the Service Number you gave Jim was his number as a Flight Sergeant. He was given the number I gave when he was commissioned to the rank of Pilot Officer on the 2nd March 1945.

Regards,

kev35

170 Sq – 29/11/44 > 14/11/45 (Lanc)
150 Sq – 22/11/44 > 07/11/45 (Lanc)
1 LFS Jan > Nov 44 (Lanc)
83 Sq 18/04/44 > 01/01/56 (Lanc then Linc)
305 Sq – 22/07/42 > 22/06/43 (Wimpy)

Moggy

Jim.

If it was 176 Squadron it was most definitely NOT Lancasters. The Squadron was formed in January 1943 in India. They flew Beaufighters on night patrols over the Burma front but I’m assuming that as you say it was the end of the war, the air assets of the IJA in the area were almost totally exhausted. I suspect they were operating in close support of infantry operations. In the hours column for each ‘raid’ are there any for night which are filled in in red? I also suspect the targets are just detailed as a raid because they would be Japanese troop and transport concentrations rather than raids on towns or cities which are few and far between in Burma. If he was with 176 Squadron he wasn’t flying from Hemswell.

Ponca City is in Oklahoma and BFTS stands for British Flying Training School.

Not very helpful to you I’m afraid. If I get chance I’ll look at units operating from Hemswell towards the end of the war.

Regards,

kev35

Hi Martin. states they took off from Hemswell, Lincs. seems to be rather frugal in most entries in the L.B. and he was with 176 Squadron.
B.T.W. Do you know where Ponca City is, it looks like he was with 6BFTS.

The Pilots name was..A.R. COVENEY…Ser No. 1335032

Jim.

Lincoln. 7

I’m guessing here, but could it be 100 Group ?