Look closer to home!!

(bad scouse accent) -does that makes you the controller of the tank engine then Graham 😀

I have to say the Vulcan makes quite a pleasant sound, its the after burners on the tiffy and the Harriers that are really loud, I am only teasing really they are all great aircraft in their own right.
I wish I had the enthusiasm as some for post war aircraft as cockpits and even complete aircraft are relatively affordable. When you are in to WWII stuff most have to make do with plastic and tank engines.:(

Have to say I found the Meatbox much quieter than the Mossie.

LOL I love them to really 😮

Either way I doubt it stops “the increasing interest and demand for the Jet Warbird”! :rolleyes:

Jets can damage your health :D:diablo:

Jets are OK if you dont mind suffering from impared hearing….

Try ‘discussing’ that with former Shackleton crews!! :confused:

Indeed perhaps it’s the people (designers, constructors, pilots, ground crew, museum volunteers etc) that are really important in all of this and not the aircraft!! 😮
(Tin hat firmly in place!) 😀

My impression from the first post is that he is not just saying we should get all these types flying, but how can we bang on about types such as Lightnings & Buccs flying abroad and not in the UK, when we appear to struggle to even get the more straightforward types that we do have here flying.
Hunters and Vamps (though they seem to be dying off, per DCollins post) seem to be in abundance, but it dosen’t seem to spread across the types.

😮 … Heretic burn him!!! :diablo: 😀

Jets are OK if you dont mind suffering from impared hearing. The Jet Tiffy at Waddington gave me a head ache, flys well though. I understand the Vulcan operating costs are enormous perhaps the engines could be replaced with four Merlins with pusher props ?? :diablo: Lots of prop aircraft still need to fly Hawker Typhoon is a must.

I am another to add to the list of enthusiasts who is in agreement with Matt – I personally have far less interest in the WWI and WWII era aircraft than I do the Cold War, simply because whilst I have the utmost repsect for all that was achieved in the name of freedom during both wars, for me, as has been raised previously, there is little more that can be said or presented about the machines of the time that would captivate my interest. The late 40’s through to the early 80’s however produced some of the most awe inspiring technology – particularly homegrown – which to me seems massively under-represented in flying form.

Yes, we have many great musea with static examples. Yes, we have the very British phenomenon of many ground running and fast taxiable jets (of which I am an active volunteer before getting caught up in the “armchair” arguement) both of which I think are invaluable resources. What we don’t seem to have is the drive to preserve some of our greatest post-war aircraft with the same level of attention as the largely piston predecessors.

I know your Spitfires and Lancasters will always have the historical and romantic edge over their younger offspring, but for a jet lover it can get dis-heartening to see Lightning, Meteor (how historic do you need to be!) Canberra, Sea Vixen , Swift etc sat out in the open slowly succumbing to the elements despite the very best efforts of the collection they reside in, whilst the old-timers are cossetted in hangars waiting for the next show season. Of course there is representation of these types, but I agree – Why 25 odd sptifires, yet 1 only 1 Meteor with only 1 more on the horizon?

This is far from a dig at anyone or any collection/group/society and was never intended to be such. Just a venting of frustration which appears to be felt by others.

I think John Lennon once sang “Just give Jets a chance”…

When you look at what the Swedes maintain in flying condition post-war and jet wise with a much smaller population, it is amazing and serves almost as a masterclass in how to do it.

Don’t forget the Navy Matt… RNHF Seahawk. 😉

I was listing all the things id forgotten last night….so yes the seahawk and the meteor thats being restored to fly. We have a hell of a lot allready and if you weigh that up with the costs then we havent done so bad, look at the money the vulvan takes, its a silly ammount. What the guys do at bruntingthorpe is fantastic and all that with little/no money. I think were living in the best of times when it comes to jet preservation, hours will run out and these machines will be just be stuck in museums

.Its all easy to say what we could and couldn’t do, jets are very expensive to operate which is why we’ve seen them dwindle, i can sadly see the flying hunter population sadly declining due to operating costs, but still there is a healthy population, we have a lovely collection of de-Havilland’s in this country with classic flight and my beloved vampire preservation group, were a small group yet we achieve an awful lot. The gnat display team does a great job on the gnats and we of course have the sabre and countless jet provosts. Plus we have 3 airworthy meteors (2 in private hands) yes it would be fantastic to see more, but jets are so hugly expensive. I can’t see there being too many more appear on the scene and i just hope we keep what we have and also ensure the Canberra makes a return, as well as the sea vixen.

Don’t forget the Navy Matt… RNHF Seahawk. 😉

Surely operating one of these would be cheaper than a Hunter or Bucc???

Yes, much cheaper, but the restoration costs will kill you! Sadly, there arent enough Meteors, Vampires or similar preserved in close to airworthy condition…

Also, much as I love de Havilland Vampires, I am aware that their pod centre spars typically have a limited life of (was it ~200hrs Bruce??).

I think its a bit more than that – I think its 1000hrs, which is fine for a service aircraft that would have them regularly replaced, but when they come out of service with 985 hrs on the spars, its a problem!

I have to say, that despite having worked on a number of WW2 aircraft, including Spitfire, Hurricane, Mosquito, P51 etc, I slightly prefer the earlier jets. For an enthusiast with no money, they make a much better option when it comes to collecting parts!

“I do worry about the future of classic aircraft such as the Canberra, Hunter,Gnat to name a few as people seem far happier to see 15 Spitfires in the air rather then a couple of classic jets……might just be my age:confused:………and before you say it i totally respect what the Spitfire did for us in WW2 that does’nt mean we forget about the rest.”

Matt, How right you are! Give the jets a chance. Sadly I think that there is little chance of seeing some of the iconic jets of the ’50s take to the air again; but surely we can celebrate the men and machines of the Cold War. They deserve it! Perhaps after this year our attention can be turned in that direction…….After all there must be a limit to the number of Spitfire, Hurricane and Mustang stories there are to tell! 2011 is the 60th anniversary of the first flight of the Hunter, Javelin, Sea Vixen and Valiant. There’s a start!

Aiming too high?

I fully agree with Pure Lightning’s initial posting on this thread, and much as I’d like to see the likes of a Lightning fly again, where are all of the airworthy Meteors??? There are spares around for Meteors, and a couple of airframes that are restorable. I know in the UK we have the NF.11, and will soon have a T.7 but I’d love to think this could be expanded on in the future. Surely operating one of these would be cheaper than a Hunter or Bucc???

Also, much as I love de Havilland Vampires, I am aware that their pod centre spars typically have a limited life of (was it ~200hrs Bruce??).

I do worry about the future of classic aircraft such as the Canberra, Hunter,Gnat to name a few as people seem far happier to see 15 Spitfires in the air rather then a couple of classic jets……might just be my age:confused:………and before you say it i totally respect what the Spitfire did for us in WW2 that dos’nt mean we forget about the rest.
all the best Matt

Its not the Armchair Enthusiast who is funding the operation of 15 Spitfires over a Gnat, Hunter or Canberra – Lets face it the combat history of the Spitfire is always going to generate more ownership investment by the wealthy than a Canberra, regardless of the costs of maintenance etc – Temora’s operating two spitfires and have just grounded their Canberra.

Similarly too the RAF will fund and operate the BBMF with Spitfires/Hurricanes and the Lancaster due to the significance of those aircraft in RAF and UK history, the post war jets simply dont hold that same place in history.

So too those iconic aircraft will generate more recognition and support from the General Public than post war jets.

Online chat about “wouldnt it be good” to bring back the Lightnings etc from SA isnt going to result in that outcome, that will only occur if a private owner, consortium or static museum pursues it. The idle chat of armchair enthusiasts is just that – harmless “what ifs” or “hopes”.

Armchair Enthusiasts need to be encouraged/introduced or “lead” to viable outcomes to support, despite the expectations of many of us, the Vulcan has successfully done that a number of times, and the recent HS748 fund raising here recently did the same.

Some see “armchair enthusiast” as some type of insult?

But its simply a level in ones aviation interest or participation, starting with the dis-interested or hostile spouse, through the levels of General Public who do or dont occasionally attend an airshow, the magazine browser at the newsagent, through to the modeller, flightsim enthusiast, the armchair enthusiast, the donor/sponsor, the active volunteer , and finally the owner and or pilot/operator?

A relatively new description recently used elsewhere is the “Foaming Enthusiast” but I’m not sure thats intended as a term of endearment? smiles.

So, “Armchair Enthusiast”, what will YOU do to make a difference to YOUR avaition community? Will you sit and type at a computer or will you dare branch out and make a REAL difference to aviation in the UK?
Ta,
Kurt (RAF, Volunteer in Historic Aviation, Married, Child, etc etc)

Most Armchair Enthusiasts are willing to provide some support or even keen to become involved, but dont know how to, or get invited to do so, many assume their lack of skills/knowledge will render them spurned, even at the local volunteer museum.

Again the HS748 thread and fundraising here is an example of successfully engaging and harnessing those interests and resources.

Smiles

Mark Pilkington – MASFE

Member – Australian Society of Foaming Enthusiasts
“Your not a true and committed Aviation Enthusiast unless Your foaming at the mouth!”

!Get up out of your Armchair and get foaming!

Matt presented a very good point. We have so much to preserve in the UK, but forums like this abound with nay sayers and armchair enthusiasts. For those of you who have a profession in the UK aviation community please take a well earned pat on the back. For those who volunteer in the preservation or restoration of older aeroplanes, well done for your work. for all others, ask what more can I do other than type “here here” or ” no, no ,no” on an aviation forum. Some talk about it and others “do it”. Ask yourself, “Which camp am I in??”, and more fundamentally, “What more can I do?”.

Recently I met a man who gave up a well paid career, took a college course in aircraft engineering and went to work for a well known warbird restorer and operator. His income has been slashed since his change of direction, but there’s one thing I know for sure….and that his he doesn’t have time for forums like this, or for those who have opinions from the sidelines. This man had the courage of his convictions and did it. Some people who work with him read and occassionally contribute to the Key Forums, and I’m sure will know who Richard is…..

So, “Armchair Enthusiast”, what will YOU do to make a difference to YOUR avaition community? Will you sit and type at a computer or will you dare branch out and make a REAL difference to aviation in the UK?

Ta,
Kurt (RAF, Volunteer in Historic Aviation, Married, Child, etc etc)

Hi all with all of this talk about bringing other aircraft back to the UK in another thread such as Lightnings ect why dont we look after what we have?
At Coventry there are 2 Canberras just sitting there ….now i belive these aircraft once did have a permit to fly in private hands and for some reason ….mainly money i should think are now grounded:(, i love the Lightning just the same as the rest of you but come on if a Canberra cant be kept in the air we stand no chance of keeping a Lightning up there!!!
I do worry about the future of classic aircraft such as the Canberra, Hunter,Gnat to name a few as people seem far happier to see 15 Spitfires in the air rather then a couple of classic jets……might just be my age:confused:………and before you say it i totally respect what the Spitfire did for us in WW2 that dos’nt mean we forget about the rest.

all the best Matt

A good point well made Matt;)

and a public thankyou for your support and help in keeping Canberra WT333 alive and kicking in her ground running role:cool:

Why not do something positive, sign up to support Classic Flight at Coventry, you can even choose which aircraft to support.

IIRC Matt does, by looking after a rather nice cockpit of his own!! 😉

And set up and runs the excellent Canberra forum:)

I think Matt raises very good points here worthy of decent disscusion rather than a slap-down for daring to mention what appears to some as the current situation.