Luftwaffe Recon Flights over UK

…pre and post-strike recces were made over the UK, at very high altitude, by the Junkers 86 P…

I could never understand why the Luftwaffe didn’t make more use of photographic reconnaissance over Britain during the war; probably just lack of resources.

After the very first interception (I think) of the high-flying Ju86P (bombing?) the Luftwaffe just gave-up; the aircraft wasn’t even shot-down, just damaged by a single 20mm hit.

To me, it is amazing that the RAF could regularly fly a PR Spitfire right the way across occupied-Europe, all the way to Berlin, and beyond, and yet the Luftwaffe, based just across the Channel in France couldn’t (or didn’t) do the same with a Bf109 or Fw190. Surely their camera technology wasn’t the problem?

I read somewhere (Alfred Price book probably?) that ‘Enigma’ intercepts revealed to the Allies that until the arrival of jet photo-reconnaissance aircraft the Luftwaffe had been unable to get photographs of London ‘for years’…

…something that came as a considerable surprise to the Allies…..especially since they’d been busy laying out D-Day deception decoys for the Germans to be fooled by!

Hi Mike,

I took the official DARRT video of Kurt & his wife’s visit ,i gave it to Group leader & that was the last i saw of it (i dont think it ever got watched).
Although i think i may have a video (taken by you)of the Me109 model that was presented to Kurt.

regards

Andrew

Hi Andrew.

I remember taking a video of the model Me109 on a Sony Video 8 camcorder. Shame about the other video probably because he didn’t want anyone else to see it. Would have been great to have a recap.

Hello Jerry.

That would be great if you have a copy. Maybe you could find a local with the conversion gadget, or send it to me. Vancouver. WOW! Lucky you. Can you make the Dartmoor Dig this weekend? 😀

Regards

Mike

hi the secret was to give group leader copies 🙂 i will try to find it during my house move and figure out how to get it onto my computer Jerry

Hi Mike,

I took the official DARRT video of Kurt & his wife’s visit ,i gave it to Group leader & that was the last i saw of it (i dont think it ever got watched).
Although i think i may have a video (taken by you)of the Me109 model that was presented to Kurt.

regards

Andrew

Hi
Now somewhere ….. I have an video tape of Kurt Thuene’s visit…
Jerry

Hello Jerry.

A Small world. And I remember the name Jerry Brewer. A couple of people did film the event including myself. I know it was very crowded, never got to see my video though I remember I could not get a good position in the front. I was looking after the farmers cassette recorder as well. The video if I remember was retained by DARRT of which I have never seen, and never been able to make contact for years now. I believe Kurt sadly passed away shortly after returning back home to Germany.

Would be great if you could post the video on Youtube or something.

Regards

Mike

Interesting website.

Just spent half-an-hour trying to pinpoint those German bombers in the photograph over London; the right wingtip of the rear bomber is at postcode London E6 3RX and they are heading roughly North-West.

The bombs exploding behind them are falling on (or near) Beckton Gasworks (or Beckton Sewage Treatment Works!) and smoke is rising from fires from (previous) bombing at the Royal Victoria / Royal Albert / King George V Docks…

…so can anybody put a date to the photograph?

Very interesting, CD. And I think the website would appreciate that information as they specifically asked for it underneath the photograph.

I am specifically interested in flights over Glasgow. I suppose trying to find out this kind of detail might be a bridge too far.

Unless you have done so already, an enquiry on the Secret Scotland Forum may yield some information.

exmpa

German Bombers over London Photograph

This is pertinent.

http://www.hitlersukpictures.co.uk/index.php?page=default-extensions

Interesting website.

Just spent half-an-hour trying to pinpoint those German bombers in the photograph over London; the right wingtip of the rear bomber is at postcode London E6 3RX and they are heading roughly North-West.

The bombs exploding behind them are falling on (or near) Beckton Gasworks (or Beckton Sewage Treatment Works!) and smoke is rising from fires from (previous) bombing at the Royal Victoria / Royal Albert / King George V Docks…

…so can anybody put a date to the photograph?

Andy,

Nice pictures – That is very helpful thank you. Do you think there is anywhere where I could find out details of missions – I am specifically interested in flights over Glasgow. I suppose trying to find out this kind of detail might be a bridge too far.

Many thanks
OG

I have a publication ISBN 1-902419-05-7 by The Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Scotland which is A4 size and extends to 64 pages. Title is Scotland from the Air 1939-1949 Volume I. Catalogue of the Luftwaffe Photographs in the National Monuments Record of Scotland. Snappy an memorable title it is not!

There are several photographs of Glasgow in that. I think I just bought my copy in a regular book shop somewhere, so it can’t be that hard to come by.

Regards
archieraf aka Linzee

Yes that is true. Our local Herald Express, early 1990’s published Luftwaffe reconnaissance photos of Torquay. Brixham. and Newton Abbot station amazing quality as I remember. (These locations were bombed. FW190 Tip and run raids mainly)

We visited the crash site of an BF109 reconnaissance aircraft of which the camera’s were recovered at the time of the crash at a farm in Buckfastleigh Devon. In the early 1980’s we traced the Pilot then living on the other side of the Berlin wall, as the wall had come down he came over to the UK. We took him to the site of his plane, The story goes he parachuted down nearby and was arrested by a farmer and taken to his house, awaiting the arrival of the Police, the pilot remembered the house very well and even recognised the axe used as a weapon as he was frogmarched up the road.

It was a big event as we had an interpreter the Pilot could not understand a word of English. All the locals who remembered the incident attended, sadly not the farmer that made the arrest. The Pilot told us that the engine had cut out twice on the way back from Plymouth, he managed to restart, but the third time he was to low and had to bale out. As my niche is Aero engines I got talking to him via the interpreter on fuel injection and water methanol injection. The pilot too was very enthusiastic on engines as well, he wished he could have understood English. I could talk to you about this all-day, he said.

One of the group members had made a model of his aircraft which was presented to him as a token of our thanks.

Hope this is of interest to you.

Hi
Now somewhere ….. I have an video tape of Kurt Thuene’s visit…
Jerry

A considerable number of pre and post-strike recces were made over the UK, at very high altitude, by the Junkers 86 P.

The photo on the left is the trail left by a Ju 86 over Portsmouth at 1.30pm on 18 August 1940, taken by my late friend Alexander McKee (of Mary Rose fame) and on the right is the Ju 86 P.

NOTE: I have recently had a few unsolicited ‘enquiries’ from an erstwhile forum poster demanding to know how I obtained certain images. These have been couched in an accusing tone along the lines “These photos were from X’s collection – how did you get them?” I have little doubt that the images posted here may well attract a similar response, so to save you the trouble the vapour trail image came to me direct from Alexander and the Ju 86 from my colleague Dr Alfred Price. As it happens, he used both in his ‘Hardest Day’ book – just to save you the trouble of working out which book you want to accuse me of scanning them from!

Sorry about that little rant – but I post images here because I think people might be interested but there is little point if I get lunatic responses, frankly.

Enjoy, anyway, Old Git. Gosh….that sounds like a comment aimed at my tormentor! OK, then. Enjoy, OG!

Andy,

Nice pictures – That is very helpful thank you. Do you think there is anywhere where I could find out details of missions – I am specifically interested in flights over Glasgow. I suppose trying to find out this kind of detail might be a bridge too far.

Many thanks
OG

This is pertinent.

http://www.hitlersukpictures.co.uk/index.php?page=default-extensions

A considerable number of pre and post-strike recces were made over the UK, at very high altitude, by the Junkers 86 P.

The photo on the left is the trail left by a Ju 86 over Portsmouth at 1.30pm on 18 August 1940, taken by my late friend Alexander McKee (of Mary Rose fame) and on the right is the Ju 86 P.

NOTE: I have recently had a few unsolicited ‘enquiries’ from an erstwhile forum poster demanding to know how I obtained certain images. These have been couched in an accusing tone along the lines “These photos were from X’s collection – how did you get them?” I have little doubt that the images posted here may well attract a similar response, so to save you the trouble the vapour trail image came to me direct from Alexander and the Ju 86 from my colleague Dr Alfred Price. As it happens, he used both in his ‘Hardest Day’ book – just to save you the trouble of working out which book you want to accuse me of scanning them from!

Sorry about that little rant – but I post images here because I think people might be interested but there is little point if I get lunatic responses, frankly.

Enjoy, anyway, Old Git. Gosh….that sounds like a comment aimed at my tormentor! OK, then. Enjoy, OG!

Many thanks for all the responses – very helpful.
Bombgone that is of particular interest as I used to live in Paignton
Thks
OG

I did have a book showing some Luftwaffe aerial recce photos, but it has disappeared, nor do I recall its name.

You may be thinking of Adolf’s British Holiday Snaps by Nigel Clarke.

I was reading that the Luftwaffe regularly made reconnaissance flights over Britain during the war which were usually individual aircraft flying very high to try and avoid interception. If this is the case, could anyone point me in the right direction to find out a bit more (any books or articles etc)?
Many Thanks
OG

The trouble for the Luftwaffe was that their missions were not sufficiently regular. After the BOB they essentially lost interest and concentrated, naturally enough, on Russia and other areas of their advance and/or retreat. R.V.Jones in Most Secret War comments that the British were able to spoof the German tracking of V-1 damage by reporting through “tame” agents the times of shorter explosions connected to farther bombing damage in West of North West London. This caused them to suspect that most of their V-1’s were running a bit long, and therefore to shorten the timing of the fuel shut off, causing the V-1’s to fall in South Eastern London and Kent. There had been virtually no Photo reconnaissance done after 1941, but there had been “Tip and Run” Raids as well as the Baedekker Raids which left lots of choice for previously un-photographed craters.
I did have a book showing some Luftwaffe aerial recce photos, but it has disappeared, nor do I recall its name.

Hi

I have a nice 200MB image of Cambridge taken in August 1940 courtesy of the Luftwaffe. Apparently they were ‘at it’ well before the war started and I’ve read that they were even using Civil Aircraft with hidden cameras.

When the Americans were heading east across Europe they were collecting all sorts of stuff left behind by the Germans. Many aerial photographs therefore now reside in the American National Archives – I have a list of the images if you are interested (or anyone else). They are not all of the UK. The NARA web site may have some general info.

They don’t cost too much and you can get them Ftp’d.

Cheers
James

“The Big Show” Pierre Clostermann, mentions combat with a high altitude specially modified Me109 recon aircraft.

Two good primers on the subject:

“Aufklarer: Luftwaffe Reconnaissance Aircraft and Units – Volume 1, 1935-1941” by D.Wadman – ISBN 978-1857802689 [Midland, 2007]
“Aufklarer: Luftwaffe Reconnaissance Aircraft and Units – Volume 2, 1942-1945” by D.Wadman – ISBN 978-1857802788 [Midland, 2007]

Cheers
Pete

Night Fighter by C F Rawnsley and Robert Wright Chapter 18 discusses the use of Mosquito XV’s to intercept high flying Ju86reconnaissance aircraft. These were in part done by John Cunningham on “day release” from his night fighter job.

WZ862