MAM last Sunday

I cheat.

“British Experimental Jet Aircraft” by Barrie Hygate…

Originally posted by dhfan
The BP111 was a pure research aircraft, funded or at least ordered by the RAE and not related to any project.

Thanks for clearing that one up for me. I have to admit that, although I remember seeing photos of the BP111 in various publications as a boy, I would not even have been able to identify it after all these years. It is not a period of aviation history I am very good on.

My only visit to Wroughton was about 15 years ago for an air show. Wonderful atmosphere. It reminded me of days in the early fifties with my parents at Panshanger.
They really should make more use of it.

Kev, sorry if I’ve hijacked your thread.

Dont know about Wroughton runway but in the 1970’s when the prototype Concorde was retired the Science Museum hangars were not open to the public. So I guess a decission to allow public access had to be made.
I see that this year the hangars at Wroughton will be open on a more fequent basis, I hope that this is the start of something bigger and better. I have said before that a site such as Wroughton, with a active runway should be used more often. Many different events, not just aviation, could benifit. The collection and storage hangars should be expanded and an simple large hangar constructed, nowhere else in the UK has the intension to preserve large civil aircraft. Ok so Duxford has an excellent collection of airliners and BA keeps a few outside at Cosford, but when was the new exhibit added? I really believe that one of BA’s original series 100 B747 should have been kept, it being no less important than the Comet or Connie already held at Wroughton. From a British civil point of view HS748, BAe 125, Jetstream 31 and BAe 146 all require presevation by a National collection.

DOUGHNUT

I’ve only been to Wroughton once so don’t know it well. I assume the runway there was too short for Concorde?

Nice Pictures Kev..I have managed a couple of visits to MAM over the past years and I have always enjoyed my visit..

The Vulcan seems to be coming along nicely..is the tail painted now also?

The Concorde at Yeovilton is owned by the Science Museum, it was flown to Yeovilton because the Science Museum had nowhere else to up it. I do not know for certain but would guess that the HP 115 and BAC 222 are either owned by the Science Museum or the RAF Museum, I am sure that I once saw the the HP at Cosford.
I have always felt that a little horse trading would be good for the UK preservation movement. We all agree that the BP 111 need a bit of TLC, if Midland can not provide it then maybe a deal could be struck with Cosford. Say a swop with a Harrier GR3. MAM would then have an aircraft that many more visitors would be able to relate to and recognise and Cosford would gain another R&D type.

DOUGHNUT

The BP111 was a pure research aircraft, funded or at least ordered by the RAE and not related to any project.

Am I correct in thinking that the BP111 was built to research the beahaviour of delta wings for the Vulcan project along with the Avro 707? Probably barking up the wrong tree as usual. In fact knowing me, I’m not even in the right forest.

Originally posted by mike currill
The other alternative is to let the FAA Museum at Yeovilton have it, it would go nicely alongside their HP 115 and BAC221 (which are the only examples of these types still in existence as far as I know) at least there we know that it would be under cover if not actively restored.

They would be the only ones still in existence as they were the only ones built. I’ve never understood why the FAA museum has a Concorde, but as it has, those two aircraft are relevant. The BP111 isn’t.
I wonder which genius decided to rebuild the one-time world speed record holder FD2 WG774 into the BAC221 and leave the other one for posterity.

Another book worth looking out for is “British Experimental Jet Aircraft” by Barrie Hygate. Argus Books 1990. ISBN 1 85486 010 0

Originally posted by danohagan
Yes, the MAM should be applauded for saving the aircraft up to the present, but do they have the facilities for longer term preservation? Thats where a national museum like Cosford should come into it.

The other alternative is to let the FAA Museum at Yeovilton have it, it would go nicely alongside their HP 115 and BAC221 (which are the only examples of these types still in existence as far as I know) at least there we know that it would be under cover if not actively restored.

Anyone wishing to learn more about the BP 111 should ceck out the new book from Crowood.

‘British Experimental Turbo Jet Aircraft’ by Barry Jones.

ISBN 1 86126 621 9

Damien – to answer your question again I wrote an article on the Boulton Paul three years ago which was using information supplied from the museum. I would rather this time judge them by their deeds rather than words.
As for ‘privately owned’ airframes. The museum is a charity and also a government registered museum so they are very much
covered by legislation. Registered charities are very much in the public limelight so would you expect the public not to express an opinion especially on a museum that has achieved registered status?
As for the BP I am aware that the noseleg is receiving attention
off site -hopefully a move to sheltered cover isn’t too far away.

I have a picture of the airfield cat at this museum, rolling in the sun the day I stopped by a few years ago while staying in Tamworth….think I have some shots of the planes somewhere, also. My first time seeing a few of these types at this museum.

Mark

We are simply custodians of our aviation heritage – nothing more – it’s the future generations we need to consider rather than our short term interests. [/B][/QUOTE]

My sentiments exactly David, after all none us can take it with us.

Surely in this day and age museums should be able to pool their resources to ensure the future preservation of significant types.

‘Pointless moaning’ Damien? Well maybe if you read the number of posts from people who are concerned about her current status
you might feel that it’s a little bit more than ‘moaning’ . This is a museum that is open to the public so the public has the right
to have an opinion on what they see.
If you feel the current status of her is about to change I look forward to a press release.

Funnily enough Damien I have spoken to Barry James about the future for the BP-111. That was nearly four years ago when the prospect of moving her into the Robin hanger for a well deserved
restoration was in prospect. Sadly this hasn’t happened so the fact that MAM ‘saved’ her from destruction at Cranfield is neither
here nor there if in the long term she doesn’t survive anyway.
All museums have a collecting policy – a careful balance has to be made between what can realistically housed and what cannot. For example the BP-111 is far more significant to U.K research and development than the T-33 but the T-33 is inside.
There are numerous U.K museums that in the 1970’s rescued aircraft from uncertain futures . Thankfully many of these machines have gained a safe undercover display -many havn’t however and Midland isn’t alone in facing the prospect of how to
realistically ‘save’ machines which are currently outside.
Repainting aircraft whilst keeping aircraft externally in reasonable condition does little for the corrosion that is behind panels or in open undercarriage bays. I spoke to the Late Bill Gent
a number of years ago who explained in depth the corrosion in the Beverley at Southend. In brief she was coming apart inside rapidly and whilst the external paint made her look reasonable
the real truth was that she wasn’t long for this world.
The real test will be if museums are mature enough to realise
that they cannot save everything – if they cannot save the ‘vital’
aircraft seek help or pass them on . We are simply custodians of our aviation heritage – nothing more – it’s the future generations we need to consider rather than our short term interests.

If what Damien says is true, and I have absolutely NO reason to doubt it, I can understand his support for MAM. I visit once or twice a year and every time I go you can see a difference. Progress is being made on one airframe or another all the time. Recently the Voodoo, Meteor and Javelin have had repaints with the Vulcan ongoing. I know very little of experimental aircraft, it’s never really been my interest, but if the P111 is deemed to be so important why did a National Museum not take it into their care? I agree Boulton Paul have done wonders with their P2 and Defiant so why didn’t they want it?

Regards,

kev35

Not saying that, just suggesting that it’d fit in with their research/development collection, and they’re better equipped with hangar space to look after the aircraft long term, if they were so inclined!

Yes, the MAM should be applauded for saving the aircraft up to the present, but do they have the facilities for longer term preservation? Thats where a national museum like Cosford should come into it.