MAM Phantom to be scrapped?

As keeps being repeated here, it is not up to MAM to scrap it, or to make it known to the preservation world. It is owned by the NMUSAF, who are the sole arbiter of what happens to it should MAM wish to terminate the loan agreement.

But if they do wish to part with it, then making it known and giving others the chance to contact the NMUSAF about a possible trade or purchase is surely in the best interests of the airframes future, before it’s too late to do so!

Rob

The Canberras are part of Classic Air Force/Air Atlantique/Classic Flight/Airbase or whatever they call themselves this week.

I’m having a look at the MAM site on Google Earth. There appears to be a bit of a scrap yard to the East of the site. The Phantom is visible against the Northern perimeter wall, next to a Vampire(?) minus tail (??). There seems to be a lot of stuff slowly disappearing into the undergrowth as you track East of the Phantom. Is this still the case? Also, who owns the two Canberras over next to the Shackleton to the West of the museum? There is a red C47 as well. Is this all part of the museum?

But then I guess if it were about to scrap their spares F-4 then I’m sure the MAM would indeed make it known to the preservation world before hand, if at all possible!

As keeps being repeated here, it is not up to MAM to scrap it, or to make it known to the preservation world. It is owned by the NMUSAF, who are the sole arbiter of what happens to it should MAM wish to terminate the loan agreement.

Mark, I guess it could of come from a volunteer – with or without authority to do so.

On no account was this thread meant as an attack on the Midland Air Museum per se, as I for one also admire the hard work that goes on there towards aircraft and artefact preservation. But I’m also aware of several instances of airframes or items being scrapped (not at MAM I might add) without others having the chance to intervene or save them. But then I guess if it were about to scrap their spares F-4 then I’m sure the MAM would indeed make it known to the preservation world before hand, if at all possible!

Rob

Rob, the only staff at the museum are in the shop, everyone else is a volunteer member. Unless its come from one of the Trustees then comments should be taken with caution.
David, if I make it Newark this year for Cockpitfest (That will keep the plugmeister happy) I will happily debate the pro’s and con’s regarding collecting policies, but I think I have come to the end of my debating on this thread.

The rationale for reviewing the Phantom’s future within the collection as a whole machine is entirely sound . It’s a clear duplication and I am sure that it wouldn’t be there if the Mig Killer had transpired earlier.

In terms of the ‘reserve’ – aircraft have indeed gone and there is room for more items to go in exchanges that benefit the museum.

This entire thread began as a result of an unsubstantiated and non attributed RUMOUR !.

Comment was posted on Facebook by someone who had visited the museum and who added a photo of the dismantled airframe, and the remark regarding the F-4 being scrapped was quoted as being from a member of staff there!

Rob

David, the Museum has not been afraid to move aircraft on which fall outside its remit. The Whirlwind Prototype went to the Helicopter Museum, the Anson to the Gloucester Collection, parts of the original Museum Vampire T11 to East Mids, the Fox Moth to a museum member. Others were the Cessna 152 and Aztec, not sure if that is an exhaustive list. I wonder what the list for other collections looks like?
I’m not active within the collection anymore, but I am still a member and keep a keen eye on what is going on. I would not suggest the collection is static in terms of goals and objectives and believe the collection is regularly reviewed regarding its continued relevance. That said, just because its not on display, should not be a good enough reason to dispose of it immediately as there maybe a potential swap move just around the corner (hypothetically speaking) I’m sure the sabre tail is now very much ‘reserve collection’ given the collection obtained the F86 from Duxford, so who knows?

Regarding the original post, the thread title is simply wrong as is the premise regarding the rationale for any actions on the spares ship F4.

Mark – I recall this being discussed a couple of times where the rationalisation of the ‘reserve collection’ has been mooted -indeed the remains of the Vampire T.11 where offered to a museum in the past. As a part of this the verbal description of what would be happening to the Phantom is exactly as the thread was started with.

In terms of the ‘negative’ point of view -there isn’t really any other way to view it. Anyone at Midland must be aware that the likes of the Sabre tail which arrived in 1982 won’t survive forever outside – as with most museums taking stock of what you have is always sensible -putting it out of sight doesn’t address the issue!

Heli – there is no disposal route. The relevant department contacts a scrap merchant and they are then supervised to destroy the item. The Convair at Duxford being an example where the engines had to be physically cut in various ways so they couldn’t be used for parts . The machine then went to the fragmentiser.

Miniman, glad you enjoyed your visit. I’m sure Barry will have been very happy with your spending spree:)
Unfortunately it felt as if this thread was only focussing on the ‘bad’ regarding MAM, when there is a lot of good things going on. There is always room for improvement, regarding the ‘reserve collection’ sadly there is nowhere to hide it out of sight.

Ah but that’s my point it shouldn’t be hidden! you can learn more from a pile of bits than a complete airframe most of the time! and it shows the unknowing public what a fine job you all do bringing them back to life. I forgot to mention the fine collection of artifacts and displays within the main building which consumed a lot of time! and the Vulcan which is my Dad’s favorite aircraft and he was delighted with his being able to go up into the cockpit area for a visit!

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All, can we just remind ourselves. At no point has the Midland Air Museum indicated its doing anything different with this aircraft.

Mark,

The comment has been noted, however the thread has given an opportunity for the issues associated with the potential disposal of the NMUSAF loan aircraft to be discussed.

Perhaps the title of the thread would be best altered to reflect the wider topic that has been highlighted and discussed

Miniman, glad you enjoyed your visit. I’m sure Barry will have been very happy with your spending spree:)
Unfortunately it felt as if this thread was only focussing on the ‘bad’ regarding MAM, when there is a lot of good things going on. There is always room for improvement, regarding the ‘reserve collection’ sadly there is nowhere to hide it out of sight.

All, can we just remind ourselves. At no point has the Midland Air Museum indicated its doing anything different with this aircraft.
This entire thread began as a result of an unsubstantiated and non attributed RUMOUR !

Can I start a thread suggesting that the FAAM are going to scrap Concord 001 as its a non naval aircraft? Has about the same amount of basis in fact as this one……………..

minimans – show me a museum that does not have airframes that are in store and awaiting work on them, been to the RAF Stafford store recently ?

http://www.midlandairmuseum.co.uk/news.php

Sorry I wasn’t suggesting anything by my comment I thoroughly enjoyed my visit to the museum on my trip home to England! In fact as I said to one of your volunteers the “back” of a museum is always my favorite place to visit where the ladies awaiting there turn for restoration usually live! I also bought over $150 worth of books from the excellent cafe/gift shop.

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Ah yes forgot about the NMUSAF involvement

I don’t think Molesworth have any selective disposals authority.
I know the OH-58 there is currently being held pending the result of a bid entered with officials in the USA after Molesworth forwarded a request on.
In the case of the various fixed wings I guess the same applies…if the USAF Museum won’t donate them then applicants could be able to go to the disposal route and bid to buy them,in competition with the scrappies?

As has been said Peter, that’s not the Museum’s call. It is a NMUSAF-owned aircraft and must be returned to them for disposal.

I agree with sentiment here. They have a nice static F4 on display to represent the type, part out the second bird save the cockpit and scrap the rest