Maryland survivor

Did anything ever come of this?

Cheers, misunderstood your post. Got it now.

Rich, the farmer had at first no idea of the value and when he was told by several so called experts that it was worth thousands he saw a chance to make money.No one actually came along with a written offer so he is waiting for another offer above scrap value. He didnt turn down the highest offer but it turned out to be a time waster as many are in the world,talk is cheap.

No need to get huffy, as it was a genuine opinion, but if you want me to play forum critic I’ll oblige you. I didn’t start out to be, my questions were genuine, but all I get is “we know better?”. Thats a poor response for a discussion forum.

Simple, telling everyone on a forum the location helps the situation how? All that achieves is to satisfy a passing curiosity.

I never said post it on a forum. But then again how can you create a viable plan if you don’t know the area you’re going into and who you will need to negotiate with? Narrowing it down to a country in Africa still gives more area than the UK to deal with. I know where there is still at least one Fairey Firefly in Eritrea. It doesn’t really pinpoint it though does does it? It gives me an idea of the government I’d have to deal with though, which would be a starting point for something, say, like a recovery plan.

Perhaps there is a recovery underway or about to be – perhaps there isn’t.

That is a pretty pointless statement. Its one or the other. Don’t ask for others to get cracking on serious plans if someone’s already on it – its a sure fire way to mess it up for everyone.

Secondly, we are acting as intermediaries and won’t be ‘deciding’ what is viable- those who have all the facts in front of them and have had ‘feet on the ground’ will be making the decisions. We (and they) are aware of private entities who can get the job done, Classic Wings didn’t start yesterday and has liaised with such people ( including all those you mention) for 20 odd years – I am sure we can walk the tightrope, we have done it before. But if we step on the wrong side of the ‘fine line’? Certainly possible.

I know what Classic Wings is, I’m not an idiot, and your initial post wasn’t exactly complimentary about those who have contacted you so far. You also didn’t answer any of the questions I asked. In regards to liaising with other groups, I didn’t see any mention of Classic Wings liasing with the recovery teams for the Greenland P-38, only interviews after. Same with the Hinds. What you’re basically saying by referencing those in the location (‘feet on the ground’ – seriously??) is that its at the whim of the guys that took the photo then? Awesome. If they are so qualified to judge what’s viable, why have they not retrieved the aircraft using the experience and knowledge they have?

This smells like the Welsh P-38.

We posted the photo on our FB page as a courtesy to the number of people asking over the past months (since the end of March when we broke the news) who, for whatever reason, could not purchase a copy of the magazine. We didn’t do it to be second guessed by forum critics who think they know better even with 10% of the facts, than those directly involved.

If you put it on Facebook it was done for no other reason than to grow your social media presence, any attempt to claim otherwise is ridiculous, as the same photo was published in Aeroplane. Claiming its because people can’t buy the magazine is utter tosh, as most people will browse through Flypast or Aeroplane at their newsagent while deciding which to buy. You did it for Likes, Views, and Shares, same as every other organisation on Facebook. You did it to improve sales by bringing in a bigger audience.

As its on Facebook, it will go around the world and somebody somewhere will know where it is. Then its out in the open and all the secret squirrel “I know where it is, you don’t.” nonsense will end. I notice you’ve been doing the same with our american friends across on WIX, when they were getting enthusiastic. I presume should the SAAF get any more interested on their aviation history forum, you’ll go for a third.

As for your crack about forum critics? I guess my answer to whether I’d be considered to have a viable plan (should I submit one) would be a ‘No’ then.

Scotavia – Sounds fairly typical. But if he was going to loan it to the museum why do you say the sale never took place due to the inflated offers? It wasn’t going to be sold in the first place, yet now he wants offers over those he turned down?

Regards,

Rich

A careful thoughtful response by Dave and one I support. I have a background in recovery of relics mostly from crash sites for museums and research in the UK. On one occasion a farmer recovered an engine ,he had no intention to sell and considered a loan to a local museum.When the location was publicised he had a lot of offers and inflated prices were mentioned, he decided to assume the top offer was the going rate and this sale never took place. As a result he will only consider offers above that price and the engine when i last heard of it was sat in his barn. A sad result .

I understand the need to keep the location reasonably private, but have my doubts if thats definitely the way things have to progress.

Firstly, I can’t understand the need for the immense secrecy unless there’s already an active attempt at recovery underway, and more attempts would hinder things politically, logistically or otherwise. “Lady Be Good”, Shackleton 1716, and many many more aircraft survived for a long period with the locations well known, I doubt the picked over bones of the Maryland will be in too much danger if the location was narrowed down from a continent to a country. The fact it was picked over long ago suggests more people know about it than the first reports suggested, and the fact it hasn’t been set fire to and reduced to ingots (like the Blenheim, Hermes and others) is also a positive point.

Secondly, who decides what’s a viable recovery plan and what have they recovered to make them qualified to judge? For instance as an individual I have a strong interest in Coastal Command but have no track record of overseas recoveries. Does that make me a viable proposition or a timewaster? My point being there are private entities out there with no recoveries under their belt that have managed to extract aircraft from places most of us wouldn’t consider (Lost Squadron P-38, Afghan Hinds) – will the Classic Wings office vetting process account for that?

Its a fine line, and I hope you stay the right side of it.

Regards,

Rich

Simple, telling everyone on a forum the location helps the situation how? All that achieves is to satisfy a passing curiosity.
Perhaps there is a recovery underway or about to be – perhaps there isn’t.

Secondly, we are acting as intermediaries and won’t be ‘deciding’ what is viable- those who have all the facts in front of them and have had ‘feet on the ground’ will be making the decisions. We (and they) are aware of private entities who can get the job done, Classic Wings didn’t start yesterday and has liaised with such people ( including all those you mention) for 20 odd years – I am sure we can walk the tightrope, we have done it before. But if we step on the wrong side of the ‘fine line’? Certainly possible.
We posted the photo on our FB page as a courtesy to the number of people asking over the past months (since the end of March when we broke the news) who, for whatever reason, could not purchase a copy of the magazine. We didn’t do it to be second guessed by forum critics who think they know better even with 10% of the facts, than those directly involved.

cheers
Dave

I think they need to get it out pronto….. As soon as the locals see and interest in it the value will go up and up…..

I understand the need to keep the location reasonably private, but have my doubts if thats definitely the way things have to progress.

Firstly, I can’t understand the need for the immense secrecy unless there’s already an active attempt at recovery underway, and more attempts would hinder things politically, logistically or otherwise. “Lady Be Good”, Shackleton 1716, and many many more aircraft survived for a long period with the locations well known, I doubt the picked over bones of the Maryland will be in too much danger if the location was narrowed down from a continent to a country. The fact it was picked over long ago suggests more people know about it than the first reports suggested, and the fact it hasn’t been set fire to and reduced to ingots (like the Blenheim, Hermes and others) is also a positive point.

Secondly, who decides what’s a viable recovery plan and what have they recovered to make them qualified to judge? For instance as an individual I have a strong interest in Coastal Command but have no track record of overseas recoveries. Does that make me a viable proposition or a timewaster? My point being there are private entities out there with no recoveries under their belt that have managed to extract aircraft from places most of us wouldn’t consider (Lost Squadron P-38, Afghan Hinds) – will the Classic Wings office vetting process account for that?

Its a fine line, and I hope you stay the right side of it.

Regards,

Rich

I imagine it would help if the location wasn’t kept such a closely guarded secret to all but national museums. Even letting people know what country its in would be a start – ‘Africa’ doesn’t really narrow it down.

Regards,

Rich

Those who are able to present a viable recovery plan will be given further details, obviously including a location. It is in Africa and in a country which isn’t keen on Westerners, although there is no actual conflict in progress there. Contact the Classic Wings office via our website if you have one. It is the only way to sort the ‘doers’ from the ‘talkers’. There have been a number of the latter who have tried their luck already, by that I mean they just want to ‘know’ and have no means or inclination to mount a recovery. In short- time wasters.

Reading between the lines I would imagine that the “diplomatic skills” part would be rather more challenging at present than having “the means” in effecting this recovery.

I imagine it would help if the location wasn’t kept such a closely guarded secret to all but national museums. Even letting people know what country its in would be a start – ‘Africa’ doesn’t really narrow it down.

Regards,

Rich

Yes, there is a Martin Museum near Baltimore.
However, I can’t believe they’re any better off financially then the much larger RAF museum.

This seems like a worthwhile project for a UK group.
UK aviation fans can raise money to keep an airshow attraction flying for another year but not to save an extinct type to honor the RAF members who gave their lives flying it in wartime.
Something’s wrong here.

Crikey! That looks better than I expected! Isn’t there a Glenn Martin Museum somewhere in the States? Might they be interested if RAF say no?

From Classic Wings Magazine facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/ClassicWingsMagazine?fref=nf
In our previous issue we broke the news that a previously ‘extinct’ Martin Maryland is awaiting salvation in Africa, in the hope that someone with the means and the diplomatic skills can recover it – either as a project for themselves, or as a trade with an interested museum. Of the latter, at least one national collection had made a commendable effort to secure the wreck, but with a limited budget ( typical of most national museum’s) were unable to continue the quest. Hopefully someone else can take up the challenge, and this rare piece of history will not be lost for good.
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Having seen the photos, I’d say it’s not the same aircraft as on the B&W photos on this thread. It does look in seriously restorable condition, and recovery is a must – hopefully people are planning a discreet rescue if it is in a sensitive area. It would be wonderful to see such a rare type come back from the dead.

Which rumour is this WebPilot?

The rumour that is lodged between ‘TSR2 XR219 was snuck out of a scrap yard in the dead of night and is in private hands’ and ‘the foundations of the Great Pyramids are made from covered over Westland Whirlwind parts’. :applause:

Or is it Typhoon parts that everybody loses their nut over?

There are rumoured to be a number of fairly substantial Maryland wrecks lying in the depths of the Libyan desert. Given the situation in Libya, I’m not surprised that there is no appetite to go looking for them at the moment.

I don’t see any correlation between any potential recovery of this wreck and the Do17. The latter was thought to be much better than it turned out to be, and was worth the risk given its rarity. Hindsight is rarely very much use.

Which rumour is this WebPilot?

How about this as a candidate for the aircraft?
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/b/552/120/1#6
The text on the site says that it was used for liaison purposes to Madagascar via Djibuti, and the drawing shows something in place of the turret, presumably a fairing.

The U.S. forces didn’t order the type, only us and the French so of limited interest across the pond

Lots of talk about the RAF recovering the Maryland. If it is so interesting would not an American team want to recover and restore it ?