MASSIVE BOMB KILLS 171 IN BALI TERROR ATTACK

RE: MASSIVE BOMB KILLS 171 IN BALI TERROR ATTACK

this is what Qantas has done for Bali Victims, now if they are penny pinching why the hell dont the rest of us in Aus know about it.

PERTH, 17 October 2002

Qantas said today it would operate additional flights into Denpasar and Jakarta from tomorrow, to meet the requirements of Australians in Indonesia wanting to travel home.

Qantas Chief Executive Officer Geoff Dixon said the airline would assess capacity requirements and adjust its schedules on a daily basis to ensure it was meeting needs.

He said that Qantas would provide a copy of the Australian Government’s latest travel advisory to all customers departing Australia for Indonesia on Qantas flights at check-in, and advise all other customers at the time of booking.

Australians in Indonesia wanting to book on Qantas should call 0018 036 1786.

People wanting travel advice should check the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade web site at http://www.dfat.gov.au
Issued by Qantas Public Affairs (Q2805)
Email: qantasmedia@qantas.com.au

Sydney, 14 October 2002

In response to media inquiries on the evacuation of Australians from Bali, Qantas said the airline:

* Had carried more than 1,500 people from Bali to Sydney today, with 1,352 people accommodated on four special Qantas flights – two 767s and two 747s – and a further 222 on the airline’s scheduled 767 service;

* Would carry a further 130 passengers on a fifth special flight, from Denpasar to Perth, that will arrive at 0520 tomorrow (Perth time);

* Had scheduled a sixth special flight, QF 8030, departing Denpasar at 1415 tomorrow and arriving in Sydney at 2140;

* Will operate its normal scheduled services on Tuesday, arriving in Darwin at 0430 and Sydney at 0755;

* Sent two of its own doctors and three nurses to Denpasar – where they remain – to provide medical assistance on the ground;

* Carried 16 medical specialists from Emergency Management Australia, who are travelling on Qantas services to Australia to administer medical attention to passengers in need;

* Had waived all conditions on tickets to Australia from Bali;

* Was carrying all airline customers with tickets from Denpasar to Australia at no additional charge;

* Had waived cancellation fees and offered refunds on air fares and Qantas Holidays packages for those yet to travel who wanted to change their Bali holiday plans;

* Introduced a special compassionate return air fare to Bali for family and friends of affected people, priced at $A399 from Perth and Darwin, and $A499 from the east coast; and

* Would add additional services if and when required.

For further information on Australians in Bali and current travel advisories, members of the public are advised to refer to the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade’s website at http://www.dfat.gov.au

Issued by Qantas Public Affairs (2803a)
Email: qantasmedia@qantas.com.au

RE: Latest update

Qantas are now facing law suite over their involvement in penny pinching, with familly members having to pay upto and over $3300 for a ticket to fly into Bali on mercy missions, a normal ticket doesn’t cost more than $800 return, but Qantas are claiming that their insurence is pushing up the price of the tickets. An investigation is now underway by the consumer industry.

WHAT? I hope the ACCC deal with it! A lot of insurance firms are honoring travel insurance claims after this tradgey despite policies not covering terror acts. QANTAS recently revealed a good profit for the last quarter, WAKE UP and have a HEART you SH#TS!!

Latest update

With Australian and CIA/FBI agents now on the case, they have now released statements from eye-witnesses saying that two white vans were involved with a total of 8 people involved, 7 of which were nationals (Indonesians), and one with the apperence of a Middle Eastern male. Australia, America and Indonesia now believe that Al queda are responcible with the help of Jamal Islamia or a splinter facton of JI.

America and the UK are also backing Australia in a call for the UN to place a ban on JI as a group, but officials in Indonesia are simply denying that the group exisit in their country.

One Ex-TNI/AU (Indonesian Air Force) person has admitted to helpping assemble the bomb, and has subsequently been placed under arrest.

Growning concerns over the security of the site and increasing restrictions to the morge are now starting to cause problems for the relatives who are still looking for their loved ones. All travel by Australian nationals is still restricted.

Qantas are now facing law suite over their involvement in penny pinching, with familly members having to pay upto and over $3300 for a ticket to fly into Bali on mercy missions, a normal ticket doesn’t cost more than $800 return, but Qantas are claiming that their insurence is pushing up the price of the tickets. An investigation is now underway by the consumer industry.

Give me coffee and no-one gets hurt!

RE: MASSIVE BOMB KILLS 171 IN BALI TERROR ATTACK

Just some info for those interested.

Toll for all Nations excluding Australia 16/10/02.

Brazil: 1 missing

Britain: 18 dead, 15 missing

Canada: 1 missing

Denmark: 4 missing

Ecuador: 1 dead

Germany: 1 dead, 12 missing

Greece: 1 missing

Hungary: 2 missing

Indonesia: 13 dead, at least 33 missing

Italy: 1 missing

Netherlands: 1 dead, 1 missing

New Zealand: 3 missing

Philippines: 1 missing

Portugal: 2 missing

Russia: 1 missing

Singapore: 4 missing

South Africa: 2 missing

South Korea: 2 missing

Sweden: 10 missing

Switzerland: 1 missing

Taiwan: 2 missing

United States: 2 dead, 4 missing

Sources: Sanglah Public Hospital, AAP,Indo.com,Reuters

Alepou 340MB

RE: Another sad, sad day

>The ‘damn’ was because this spoiled my theory, nothing else.
>However, it does bother me that this violence is again
>connected with Islam even before any serious clues led in
>that direction. People seem all to trigger happy to point
>the finger at ‘Islam.’ While they can very well be right, i

They are right and the reason people had suspected Islamic radicals initially is because of the modus operandi. Disco and nightclubs have been bombed by radical muslims in Asia and Europe since the 1970s. Western tourists within the previous five years have been slaughtered in Egypt and Tunisia.

Here was another attack on Western tourists in a Islamic governed country. The local Hindu population? Not likely, there is no precedence of violence and they had depended on the tourist trade for decades.

It could be the Indonesian military, which actually supports several of the most violent Islamic groups, including the Laskar Jihad which had been killing Christians on the Spice Islands and on West Timor in previous years.

>would like both a little restraint with such accusations
>(the Oklahoma bombing was almost immediately connected with
>Muslem extremists as well), and i hate it when people say
>’Muslems’ when they refer to ‘militant Muslem extremists.’
>

Read my post, I said specifically radical Islam.

Arthur, maybe you should act with a little restraint before insinuating that Americans were bigots for initially linking the Oklahoma City Bombing with radical Islam. They had very good reasons to. The first WTC bombing had happened just two years before and it most certainly did involved radical muslims, including one Ramzi Yousef.

There is mounting evidence that the Oklahoma City bombing actually did involved an Islamic link. Terry Nichols, McVeigh’s partner, visited the Philipines several times bewteen 1992 and 1994 and “according to a motion filed by the McVeigh defense team, an American fitting Nichols’ description met with Yousef in the Philippines in 1992 or 1993.” Yousef was funded by Al Queda for the 1993 WTC bombing.

McVeigh himself had been witnessed in the company of Hussain Alhussaini, who was John Doe No. 2 (whose profile initiated the original muslim connection).

Take these as you will. But please read the Indianapolis Star’s story. It is very well researched.

http://www.mastalk.com/oklahoma/indy/indystar.htm

http://www.okcbombing.org/News%20Articles/iraq_link_911.htm

>No one is accusing Islam of being the only religion which
>is violent. But to be truthful it is far more violent than
>Buddhism or Hinduism. I cannot understand this repeated
>urge to condemn others to divert attention from the case at
>hand.
>
>Hinduism has it’s militant factions. Buddhism doesn’t really
>have the doctrine to be a militant religion in itself, but
>the Pol Pot-collectivism in Cambodia during the late 1970s
>certainly has it’s roots in some Buddhist principles. I

Bullshit. Pray tell, what Buddhist principles influenced his choice to murder his own people?

He was an atheist (I’m sorry to say) and a communist. His genocidal urges were derived mainly from twisted Marxist tenets of class struggle from what I could see.

>
>Until the mid-1600s, Islam was by far more tolerant than
>Christianity.

And Western civilization, not Christianity, had been far more tolerant in modern times. You know, I could give a rat’s ass about Christianity. Fundamentalist Christianity and Islam come from the same root. Radical muslims weren’t killing Puritanical Christians, they were killing secular and religiously moderate young Westerners.

So spare me this incessant Islam/Christianity comparision. For your information, in the millenium before the mid-1600s, messianic Islam had embarked on a campaign through the sword that was far more bloody, and successful, than the Crusades. The classical civilizations of Egypt, Persia and Byzantium were annihilated and brought into the Islamic fold.

It might have been more tolerant than Christianity then again but everything’s relative.

At any rate, this thread is about what had happened in Bali. It was an act of violence committed by religious radicals against young Westerners. If you feel it is necessary to point out the evils that Christians did 300 years ago, then start another thread. I’ll gladly join you in that one.

But not here. It has no relevance.

RE: MASSIVE BOMB KILLS 171 IN BALI TERROR ATTACK

Thanks guys. I have heard that only 2 Americans have been killed so far, and the Aussie toll is now 33 dead, with 140 still missing.

Interesting developments too.

Evidence of C4 explosive found. Ex-Indonesian Air force man has apparently confessed to building the bomb, but won’t say who ordered the attack.

Still no one has come forth to claim responsibility.

Regards, Glenn.

RE: MASSIVE BOMB KILLS 171 IN BALI TERROR ATTACK

Vortex,

I would suggest that the British people cared little for Afghanistan twenty years ago and quite probably care even less about it now. The difference between the USA and the UK is that we do not kid ourselves that operations were carried out in Afghanistan for the good of the Afghan people, it was purely a response to the attacks on September 11th. al-Qaeda made Afghanistan one of their havens. The sole purpose of the attacks on and continuing presence in Afghanistan is to deny al-Qaeda a base from which to operate. Any benefits to the Afghan people are purely coincidental. And while we’re discussing the US’s altruistic motives, can you tell me how many Afghan refugees/asylum seekers are being allowed to settle in America?

Regards,

kev35

RE: MASSIVE BOMB KILLS 171 IN BALI TERROR ATTACK

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 16-10-02 AT 02:30 AM (GMT)]”I wonder what Austrailia is going to do since Indonesia officially ties the attac…”

Sorry you misunderstand. The Australian definition of a defencive mobilisation is to reactivate service personel so that they can have guys and girls in uniform standing around government buildings and airports and things… not the US defence of bombing and invading countries.

” right Kev, and the British cared a rat’s ass about it. Obviously i’m talking about NOW.”

Why should I be sad for the Afghans now?
The Taleban are out of power and have lost their international support and the remaining Afghans are in charge.
They are in the best position they have been in for 20 odd years.
The fact that the Taleban is no longer supported by US money means they are unlikely to get back into power easily and international aid will probably continue to trickle in at a rate high enough to let them slowly rebuild.
It will never become another Hong Kong… Aid cannot do that and will not be allowed to do that… the West doesn’t want a strong Afghanistan any more than it wants a strong Russia.
It is the people and their traditions that are the stumbling block (fueds and infighting are a tradition at the village level) and they don’t seem to want to change. That is OK… they don’t need to be another Japan.

RE: MASSIVE BOMB KILLS 171 IN BALI TERROR ATTACK

right Kev, and the British cared a rat’s ass about it. Obviously i’m talking about NOW.

RE: MASSIVE BOMB KILLS 171 IN BALI TERROR ATTACK

Glenn,

I’ve heard that there are 2 Brazilians disappeared, including one military who is part of the UN Peace Force in East Timor. There is another Brazilian military who was close to the place where the explosion occured, but he just had his face cutted a little bit. Apparently, some soldiers who were in mission in East Timor were sent to Bali right after the attack.

Regards,
Junin

RE: MASSIVE BOMB KILLS 171 IN BALI TERROR ATTACK

Vortex,

“i find no trace of concern about Afghanistan, but mockery and blame of the US. Sad.”

America showed ‘no trace of concern about Afghanistan’ until they found out Osama Bin Laden was there.

Glenn,

Current British casualties appear to be thirteen confirmed dead and identified, five more they are certain are dead and a further fifteen who are missing but presumed to have been killed. It seems possible the figures may be revised down to about 30. The scenes shown on tv here of people returning home, both to the UK and to Australia are heartrending. I don’t know what Australia can or will do about this situation but I think the British Government should assure Australians that they will be given the fullest support and co-operation in whatever the Australian Government decides to do.

Regards,

kev35

RE: MASSIVE BOMB KILLS 171 IN BALI TERROR ATTACK

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 15-10-02 AT 09:19 PM (GMT)]I wonder what Austrailia is going to do since Indonesia officially ties the attack to Al Queda and domestic Islamic extremist groups. They can’t possibly land soldiers there since that would be a violation of sovereignty and you can’t use the Indonesia was housing terrorists as a state since they officially claim to be countering them. Maybe against some border islands where they suspected terrorists activities and where the boundary of sovereinty are questionable?

and no Garry, you didn’t say that but your tone indicates that and i find no trace of concern about Afghanistan, but mockery and blame of the US. Sad.

RE: Another sad, sad day

Why damn, Arthur? Does it bother you that Islam is
connected with this act of violence? Would it be better if
it were the local Hindus or Nazis so you could point at
someone else and say “they also do this?”

The ‘damn’ was because this spoiled my theory, nothing else. However, it does bother me that this violence is again connected with Islam even before any serious clues led in that direction. People seem all to trigger happy to point the finger at ‘Islam.’ While they can very well be right, i would like both a little restraint with such accusations (the Oklahoma bombing was almost immediately connected with Muslem extremists as well), and i hate it when people say ‘Muslems’ when they refer to ‘militant Muslem extremists.’

No one is accusing Islam of being the only religion which
is violent. But to be truthful it is far more violent than
Buddhism or Hinduism. I cannot understand this repeated
urge to condemn others to divert attention from the case at
hand.

Hinduism has it’s militant factions. Buddhism doesn’t really have the doctrine to be a militant religion in itself, but the Pol Pot-collectivism in Cambodia during the late 1970s certainly has it’s roots in some Buddhist principles. I don’t make this statement to make up for the violence the world has seen in the last 30 years in name of Allah, i just want to put violence and terrorism under cover of religion into context. Making statements like “Hey, it’s the Allah-guys again, let’s kill ’em before they kill us!” is IMHO on the same level of intolerance and self-righteousness as any political, social or religious extremist. Including Islamist.

200 young people were blown up in Bali and what you want
to say is look at this Christian tinpot in Africa as if to
comment what happened in Indonesia wasn’t all that bad
because everyone else is doing it.

Nope, it’s just that we suddenly care when it’s people of our own cultural and ethnical background are killed, preferably by a party we already know to be ‘evil’. We don’t care if equally innocent and young people have their skulls split by machetes if they are not white, and certainly not if the agressors in this case are under the same God as that one particulair nation proclaims itself to be. It is equally bad. Call your God Allah, Shiwa or Bog for all i care, if you commit atrocities under his/His (the capital for all you non-heathens/atheists/agnosticist around here) name it is equally bad. And it happens in almost all, especially in messianic religions as you yourself have pointed out.

Okay, then why don’t we look at the 500,000 Chinese who
were killed in Indonesia during the 1960s by Indonesian
muslims?
Because those 500.000 Chinese were of course killed by the US-backed Suharto in his struggle against Communism. Tsk… religion wasn’t an issue here. At least as far as the West was considered back then.

Or the 500,000 Christians killed in East Timor by
Indonesian muslims.
Calling this a purely religious conflict is way too easy. You know very well that there were quite a few other factors involved as well.

Or the murder and slavery of black Christians in Sudan by
Arabic speaking muslims.
You mean those peacefully Christened Africans, or those forced to become Christian because otherwise they’d find themselves shipped to a certain market? Again, there’s much more to this conflict than Islam vs. Christianity or Animism here. Don’t make the classical mistake of giving each and every conflict a single reason. Marxists used to blame socio-economic reasons for each and every war, people with racist obsessions make everything a racial war, historians give nice historical reasons without looking at the present, and at this moment in time it’s good fashion to give each and every conflict a religious background. Nice to make things comprehendable for the conveniently ignorant, but not if you want to present yourself as well-informed.

What about the Christians in Pakistan killed last month?

Absolutely horrible, i agree. Yet to me it doesn’t prove Islam is inherintly more violent than Christianity. Unless you have the courage to take that statement a little further, and say that Muslems in general are more frustrated than the general Christian?

Why is it sickening to point out that the radical wing of
Islam is extremely violent and bigoted?
The attacks in Uganda are sickening was what i meant. Butchering Rwanda-style. I would call pointing out “that the radical wing of
Islam is extremely violent and bigoted” more something like blunt, or only a starting point to get a more serious look on the current situation with Islamic extremists.

Messianic religions like Christianity and Islam are not
tolerent faiths. You are either a believer or you are an
infidel. But the fundamentalist wing of Islam, right now
has far greater hold in muslim lands and populations than
the fundamentalist Christianity has in Christian majority
ones.

Until the mid-1600s, Islam was by far more tolerant than Christianity. The Christians needed to eradicate whole areas of Europe before finding out that a little tolerance might be helpful – and still, Northern Ireland is (bluntly stated of course) an inter-Christian religious conflict.

Western societies for all intent and purposes are
secular.
“One nation under God.” I beg your sarcasm 😉

There are no constant calls for crusades as there
are incessant calls for jihads and fatwas. It fact, the
separation between church and state in Western societies are
enforced by law.
Okay… but then, why does the German state levy religious taxes? Why is the Queen of England also the head of the Anglican Church? Western society is by name secular, but their (our) culture is so heavily based on the Christian-Jewish tradition that it could easily be misinterpreted by a poor-educated Muslem peasant (especially with a cunning anti-Western Imam with a smart hidden agenda).

I’m an atheist. To me, religions and ideologies are the
same. They both present sets of beliefs. If it is okay to
condemn Nazism and dictatorial Communism then it is okay
condemn wahhabism which preaches death to infidels and
martyrdom through mass murder.
Sets of belief are one thing, interpretation of that is another. Forcing others to agree with your interpretation of your particulair belief is what I condemn, be that nazism (for me personally the only ideology which I condemn on forehand because it refuses to accept certain individuals no matter what, none of the other ideologies are that rigid in judging individuals – perhaps maybe full-blown Catholicism). I condemn dictatorial communism and wahhabism because of their actions, not because of their ideologies. Believe what you want, just don’t force it upon others.

Fundamentalist Islam, like fundamentalist Christianity, is not tolerent, not matter how you try to convince people
otherwise. They are finding this out in Holland too. Gays,
other minorities and women feel discriminated against in
muslim dominated areas.

The painstaking process of integration. Do you know how tough life for Protestants was in a Catholic area of the Netherlands as late as the early 1960s?

Remember Pim Fortuyn? He and his supporters weren’t your
average right winger. His party composed of blacks, gays,
women and working class with socialist leanings. Pim
himself was gay.

Yet Fortuyn managed to gather your archetypical right-wing public: small entrepreneurs, xenophobes and dissatisfied working-class individuals. The same bunch of people who like to follow your everyday charismatic, eloquent and inconsistent leader appearing not to be from the establishment.

Islam in Asia had been moderate and tolerent. Iran,
Afghanistan, Malaysia and the Central Asian republics were
traditionally moderate societies. But we saw what happened
when Middle-east inspired wahhabism takes over.

And now you should ask yourself how it could happen that moderate Islamic societies at some stage accepted intolerant Wahhabism. Purely on religious grounds? I doubt it.

We saw a people blowing up its own heritage at the Buddhas
of Bamiyan because there is no place for any other beliefs
in their world. This, my friend, is intolerance.

Technically the Bamiyan Buddhas were destroyed because of the ban on making images of humans (and animals too? Not sure) in Islam. Interestingly, you can find similar rules in Christian and Jewish scriptures. Yes, destroying those sculptures was an act of intolerant barbarism by a bunch of Islamic-cult-inspired thugs who suddenly found themselves in control of a country. But i wouldn’t want to see extremist Christians, Jews, Animist or Hindus in a comparible situation.

I understand what you are trying to say and i believe some of your first statements against Islam were a lot less discriminate as you intended to be (correct me if i’m wrong), but i do not agree with you that Islam as a religion is inherently more violent than other (messianic) religions, nor that religion is the only cause for this violence. It’s not the cause, it’s the excuse.

RE: MASSIVE BOMB KILLS 171 IN BALI TERROR ATTACK

This Link should help any people who are looking for any info on their loved ones involved in this Terror attack.

www.sosbali.com

I hope it helps.

Alepou 340MB

RE: MASSIVE BOMB KILLS 171 IN BALI TERROR ATTACK

OK, amid all the political debate the Australian death toll is now 30! This is TERRIBLE, and there are still well over 100 missing. Not sure how many other foreign nationals have been killed, can anyone help with that? We will have an official day of mourning on Sunday here.

Regards, Glenn.

RE: the REAL culprits

Has anyone any idea who the real culprits are? President Bush ‘surmises’ it was al-Qaeda or there was al-Qaeda involvement, but is that any reason to accept it as truth?

The point is the victims are still being taken from the rubble, the dead are yet to be identified and interred, those seriously injured are fighting for their lives, those less seriously injured are gradually being evacuated or findind their own way home, surely, our thoughts should principally be with the victims and their families at this time. The authorities will apportion blame soon enough.

I don’t know who the perpetrators are or how they will be found. Countless millions were spent on military operations in Afghanistan with the goal of regime change and the destruction of al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden. This was only partially achieved. The new regime in Afghanistan is hanging on by its fingernails and al-Qaeda seem to still be operating with impunity and it now seems likely Osama Bin Laden is alive. Rather than attacking Countries, such as Iraq, would it not be better to target individual cells of terrorists wherever they are found?

Regards,

kev35

RE: the REAL culprits

Hilarious.

Nothing much to say but I must say that I am not surprised anymore about this kind of statements.

My condolences to the victims families and friends.

RE: the REAL culprits

Just adding to this, all ex ADF personel are now on re-call standby notice, I received a call today. Australia is going to get serious about this.

I don’t want to go back to Indonesia, I’ve got a life and the Navy is not it.

Give me coffee and no-one gets hurt!

RE: the REAL culprits

“Hey, the big tar brush has been out for Americans, hasn’t it? Oh, the KKK never killed in the name of Christianity. They did killed in the name of the Grand Dragon.”

All the KKK members I have ever spoken to have been “good Christians”.
“Why if God had meant us to mix with people of colour he wouldn’t have made us different…”
The language has become less offensive, but the ideas are the same.

“I’m suggesting that they killed Australians, Brits, Swedes, Germans and Hindus because they were not muslims.

It was a racial and religious attack. No different from Nazis killing Jews for their creed.”

As I said, your point was unclear… thank you for the clarification.

I also doubt that it was a religious attack, nor was it specifically directed at Aussies.
It was a financial hit at Indonesia… much like the attack on the WTC.
Bali is to Indonesia what HongKong is now to China… an excellent source of foreign currency. The difference here of course is that Indonesia is not in good shape financially, though it does have a large population.

“I’ve absolutely no idea what you’re getting at. “Better dead than red” is the same as carbombing a nightclub?”

In a quite famous war in South East Asia not that long ago US troops destroyed many villages to “save” them from communism. The guilt or innocence of the villagers was not considered.
Bush has already stated this is a war… a war on terrorism… you can’t say alls fair in love and war and then later say it isn’t.

“Our true enemy is radical Islam. “

No, our true enemy is the cowards who are using the religion of Islam to do depraved and horrible things to innocent people.

“Oh, I think you are condoning what’s done. I hope you have the same tolerance when Western civilians, who are also being ignored by their politicians and the world, respond in kind.”

I am not condoning what was done… I am suggesting a reason as to why it was done. In context the West does not need to kill indiscriminately to get its message across, though it often does this anyway with “military interventions”.

“There were never American soldiers, money is one thing. But the Arabs had massive Soviet aid which did include Russian pilots and advisors.”

So those aircrew on the C-5s were civilian?
Strange also how so many Israelis have American accents…

“>The US did nothing till its own territory was attacked.

Exactly, 3000 American civilians were killed on American soil 9/11/2001 and we haven’t declared who the enemies are save for this pissant Osama bin Laden. “

If you are suggesting the US has done nothing to retaliate for 11/9 then I guess the troops sent to Afghanistan and the Phillipines and the changing of the government in Afghanistan were all figments of our imagination.

“Hey, like the f7cking Albanians were unhappy about us being there. We practically gave them a nation. “

And then took it away by agreeing with the Serbs that Kosovo cannot become and independant state…

“At any rate, an accidental strike is a far cry from a deliberate attack on civilians.”

You mean like an attack on a civilian TV station?

“Hey GarryB, if you feel what happened in Bali was okay and you think it serves Australia right for siding with the US, by all means you should convince the Aussies to switch sides.”

I notice you didn’t include any quotes of me saying any of that.
Why?
Is it because I didn’t say any of that?

“Hey, when Hindus start blowing Australians up for siding with muslims, I hope you switch again.”

I thought you were talking about radical elements… now you are talking about all Muslims, and Hindus too.

“It was an angry reaction on my part to what I felt was America-bashing on something as horrible as this. If you feel it’s the fault of Americans, so be it. “

Who is blaming America?
Glenn mentioned that he thought Australians might have been the target and that the reason for them being targetted was Australias backing of American moves. In other words he is blaming his own government for blindly following the US.
I personally don’t agree. I think the attack was aimed at stopping Bali from being a popular holiday place for foreigners and to hit the Indonesian government in the pocket. It may have had outside support but I’d suggest those on the ground could care less about Iraq or Al Quada and are more interested in toppling the current government to replace it with a more conservative government. ie I think it is internal and the foreign tourists just got in the way.

“Man have some heart for the suffering people of Afghanistan…unless your anti-American aggenda rises above all other’s suffering to accomplish your self-prophesed professy.”

What are you saying?
If I blind myself to Afghanistans history and the history of the US in Afghanistan (ie use them to hurt the Soviets then forget them when they no longer serve a purpose) and pretend that that war ravaged country with very little or no infrastructure, very little good quality arable land and pshycos and bandits around every corner will suddenly become tha land of milk and honey, and everyone will learn to speak English and all learn to drink coke and pizza and McDonalds and learn to play American football and Basketball and it becomes a little US away from the US that any of that will happen… that the people of Afghanistan will even want that to happen?

“Why you insist that the Taliban will come back and win. “

I never said the Taleban will win. I was suggesting that the Taleban have nowhere else to go, while the US and other foreign forces do… and when they do the Taleban will continue what they were doing before the they took power in the early 90s. Of course they are not likely to win without Pakistani and US support but they will be able to continue a fight that will keep the country poor. (outside support will probably keep the government in power, but there will be infighting and fueds as there has always been… their disunity was a strength in that they could never be completely defeated… in peace time it is also their greatest weakness.)

“No one is accusing Islam of being the only religion which is violent. But to be truthful it is far more violent than Buddhism or Hinduism. I cannot understand this repeated urge to condemn others to divert attention from the case at hand.”

So what you are saying i the case at hand is that Islam as a religion is violent?
Ever heard of the Crusades?

“200 young people were blown up in Bali and what you want to say is look at this Christian tinpot in Africa as if to comment what happened in Indonesia wasn’t all that bad because everyone else is doing it.”

He is not saying it is not bad because everyone is doing it. He is saying that christians are also capabile of such violence so perhaps linking religion as a motive for these sorts of things is not only not useful, but also inflamatory.

“If it is okay to condemn Nazism and dictatorial Communism then it is okay condemn wahhabism which preaches death to infidels and martyrdom through mass murder. “

That is not logical.
Nazism at its heart is based on flawed beliefs. ie the Nazi views on Judaism, Homosexuality, etc etc are unacceptable to many, but they don’t actually cross the line till they start trying to change things by eliminating the things they don’t like.
We don’t condemn nazis because they didn’t like jews or slavic people… we condemn them because they actually tried to wipe them out.
To suggest that a religion is bad because certain members use the religion as an excuse to do bad things is silly.
If a christian priest molests altar boys does that mean the Christian church promotes sexual deviancy?
By denying a case exists and simply moving offenders around is the church not supporting the perpetraters?
If there is a scandle in the US over sex offending of the church heirarchy does that mean priests in Britain are unsafe?
Does it mean priests in India are unsafe?
Should the whole religion be the enemy and target of sanctions and invasion?
Should the Pope be targetted by Bush for elimination?

“…but we Israelis are so evil, I don’t think anyone would believe me !!!”

Ahh come on Skythe… we all know Cemetaries in Israel are full of Zionist plots… }> Sorry… Bad Taste.

RE: the REAL culprits

I don’t know why you included that article but I hope you are smart enough yourself to know it was written by a complete moron who has no idea about what he’s saying.

Anyway, it is a tragedy. Question is: could this have been avoided?