Maurice Hammond's new P-51D Pictures

??

Hi Ewan,
The 3rd page of the MACR is a hand draw map of the crash sight.
The rest of the translated Luftwaffe report of the pilots ID and disposition of his earthly remains. Plus the report of the a/c inc damage assessment and how it was downed. I happened to be going down to the library today and took the film to put throught the mocrofeche film in their mjachine and look at the report again and found a page with a small strip I missed before. Here it is and it does show the code. It’s sorta grainy but it looks like a ‘D’ to me.
It also says 505th FS instead of the correct 504th FS. If you’re wondering about my interst specifically in #521 the pilot Capt Stevens lived close by my grandparents in Hood River, OR.
Since it’s translated some folks may not accept it has genuine.

Jack,

Any chance of you posting the next page of the MACR……..?

I believe it has further information which may clarify things..:rolleyes: So let’s see it then.

I have found when on these forums that:

a) everyone thinks they know the right answer, when in fact only a small proportion actually do..
b) People take things literally.
c) being proved incorrect is not a personal attack on the size of your manhood.
d) like religion, things that happen in wartime get misreported over time, and may even be incorrect AT the time! Do we really think that it’s possible for Moses to hold back water etc etc. Do we really think that we, (the allies) didnt make mistakes like the Germans did?

So lets all be thankful that Maurice Hammond has done another superb job with this one.. For all you pedants out there, he did have a plan to paint it Lime green with purple spots and racing numbers on the side but I told him he might attract even more dumb comments on here 🙂

It’s a flyer, so lets be thankful and until we get evidence to prove otherwise, 5Q-B looks good to me

????

“I think you get the point. I hope you do.”

No not really. All I heard was Blah-blah-blah.
Yes the German recovery report is translated so what. It’s a lot easier
to read!
Has for the tiny photo you posted, well it’s a different a/c.
The 3 5Q+Bs in the 504th FS were
#1 s/n 44-13569 Maj. Lewis Peter crew chief SSgt Lejeune
#2 s/n 44-13330 “Picalo Pete” flown by Major Lewis Peter crew chief SSgt Lejeune
#3 s/n 44-725__ “Hillbilly” flown by 1Lt Lyle Carter
There’s a nice photo of #1 569 in the 339th FG Group history book showing the full serial.
Some people have tried to say the 5Q+B is on 521’s MACR which is not true.
Here’s the MACR.

statement by Bill Routt flying his 5Q+B #2:eek:

and no ones is attacking Mr Hammond. If you’d care to quote me I said
“a beautiful flying P-51D and GREAT job to all involved!!!”

Meanwhile… the rest of the video

….is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX9hVkTjOIs

Additional shots that were on the virtual cutting room floor, includes almost unedited takeoff climb etc, and some nice rorty Meriln sounds.

Enjoy,

Nik

My hat is off to anyone who rebuilds a warbird with their own blood sweat and tears (and just a bit of cash)! To make any old wreck a safe flier would mean replacing MOST of a heavily damaged airframe. If it were rebuilt just to sit in a museum, that would be a different matter all together.

I too, am curious to know just how much of the existing bits were used, but not to the extent that it might irritate the owner! The folks rebuilding the FW190 over at White1Foundation do have a nice diagram showing what is old and what is new, but then again, they had a bit more to start with!

If a mostly complete airframe is found, is it even ethical to replace 95% of it to make it flyable? There is the question!!

“…and not let this discussion get out of hand!”

Ooooh, go on, do….I love a good punch-up 🙂

Nik – I imagine that the data for the radio sets etc was taken from the aircraft maintenance/log card showing the serial no.s etc of equipment fitted to the machine. The RAF did a similar thing on their own log/movement cards, but were not quite so specific I think as the yanks! Therefore, the data probably wasnt copied from the actual wreckage, the data existed on the card anyway, and each item and s/no was declared written off for QM purposes.

I think Jack was at great pains to say that he was not in any way criticising the rebuild, but was curious as to the starting point for the rebuild itself. I think to extrapolate the comments made to a personal attack on anyone/quality of work/reputation is not what has been said.

You say, the starting point of the rebuild is a matter for the owner, I say fair enough fella!

Is Marinell a beauty yes (and I prefer Hurricanes 🙂 ) Is she a credit to those who put the graft in to put her back in the air abso bleeding lutely she is.

Do I, personally care what was used, nope – none of my business- she looks like a mustang, sounds like one, smells like one and damn sure costs the same as one I’m sure, and on that basis she stands on her own merits.:)

Lets not spoil the team’s moment here, they’ve earned it

…and not let this discussion get out of hand!

Just my penn’orth

TT

and there’s more… lol

Just occurred to me, if your supposition is that the aircraft was blown to pieces, then it’s surprising, as per the report, that the radio survived including crystals, the engine was in good enough condition for all the serials to be taken off it, and there was a big enough chunk for the local fuel depot troops to guard it post crash. If the radio survived, then I’m guessing it was where it started, in the fuselage…. touche?

Nik

Clarity needed

Hi Bruce,
Good points which I’ll try to answer.
Has for 521, pilots reported small pieces fluttering down like a silver cloud.
The Luftwaffe report clearly indicates the amount of damage and showes the serial number and I’ll post it here.
You are correct about the ‘new’ P-51Bs has they are 99.9999% new built.
Check out the Flug Werk site and see the P-51 assemblies offered and you’ll get an idea of what’s being done.
A number of firms in the US are doing even more.
http://www.flugwerk.com/p51.shtm

The fact that this German report says received makes me wonder if the a/c wreckage wasn’t recovered and smelted down and maybe a data plate was removed before that happened.
Has you say, it would be nice to know what they really did start with. It’s pretty quite out there though:eek:

With complete respect, and I don’t want to start a riot here, that’s not the original German report is it? It can’t be, it’s in English, so I assume it’s a translation after the event.

You want to know what ‘they’ started with? What I can tell you is that I was around shortly after the first pieces of Marinell arrived at Eye. No one can vouch for what happened between the crash and it’s ending up in a museum, but when it arrived with Maurice it was a big chunk of fuselage etc, with the data plate inside and intact.

He has hundreds of pictures but I don’t think he’s going to lower himself to this debate, and quite right too.

Your assertion about the registration is interesting. If it was D as opposed to B, how do you account for the following pic of D from the 339th themselves which seem not to show Marinell? There are more in the 339th Archive.

Sadly you clearly don’t know Maurice Hammond at all. If he wanted to scratch build a new Mustang he could and would, and wouldn’t have the slightest qualms about telling the world exactly what it is. No machine that’s sixty years old and has been substantially damaged is going to be original.

If you think Maurice is in the business of knocking up half baked fake engineering then you’d better talk to the community of Merlin Engined aircraft owners who trust his immaculate, Rolls Royce certified, better than new rebuilds to power their warbirds worldwide.

If, in a notional situation, Marinell had survived the war intact and then been put into use as a flying Museum piece, like the BBMF, what would have been replaced over 60 years? Engine swap, certainly, main spar, certainly, avionics, several times, u/c almost certainly, wheels, tyres, braking, hoses, leading edges, maybe a canopy along the way, wooden aerial, all strappings and parts made from organic materials that would expire corrode or rot, prop several times, cables several times, half a dozen paint jobs, hinges and pivots, every bearing on the plane, most screws and fastenings. Maybe the odd minor accident would have meant a panel replacement, then at say 50 years a total strip and rebuild?

While you’re about it, why not have a go at the BBMF Lancaster? That’s had a new main spar and is flying in non original colours…. as for the Vulcan…. oh and by the way I think Lewis Hamilton has had an engine swap and new bodywork on his McLaren, so if he wins the World Championship and McLaren plan to exhibit his car as original, you might want to put them right…..

I think you get the point. I hope you do.

Nik Coleman

Well, let’s not get too Impatient about Virgin rebuilds…:rolleyes:

???

Hi Bruce,
Good points which I’ll try to answer.
Has for 521, pilots reported small pieces fluttering down like a silver cloud.
The Luftwaffe report clearly indicates the amount of damage and showes the serial number and I’ll post it here.
You are correct about the ‘new’ P-51Bs has they are 99.9999% new built.
Check out the Flug Werk site and see the P-51 assemblies offered and you’ll get an idea of what’s being done.
A number of firms in the US are doing even more.
http://www.flugwerk.com/p51.shtm

The fact that this German report says received makes me wonder if the a/c wreckage wasn’t recovered and smelted down and maybe a data plate was removed before that happened.
Has you say, it would be nice to know what they really did start with. It’s pretty quite out there though:eek:

Jack,

100% damage could be read to mean that there was no way of returning the aircraft to flight – but that a significant amount of wreckage still existed.

Can we also be certain that the Luftwaffe correctly identified the aircraft?

If we are going to question the rebuild of this aircraft, should we also not be questioning the rebuild of the two most recent B models, neither of which started with anything much, along with any number of further D models constantly resurrected from scrashed remains??

Where do we stop?

That said, it would be nice to know just what they did start with.

Bruce

44-13521

Wix is dead until Scott switches to a new server. So were all migrating across the pond.:eek:
Geez I may have to post of pics. I’ve got a few nice Spit shots too!
I had a nice photo of 521 in flight that Dick Penrose gave me showing the codes 5Q+D but it and about 10,000 others burned with our home last year.
Peter Randall also shows 5Q+D has does Martin Kyburz.
44-13521 P-51D 504 5Q-D Stevens, Capt. Bradford V. “Marinell” Taken on charge 30 June 44. Lost 13 August 1944 – Lt. Myer R. Winkelman KIA MACR 7775
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/339thfg.php?searchString=44-13521&Submit=Search
Here is a nice shot of Lt Winkleman in 521 connecting his Berger G-Suit just days before he went down. BTW the Luftwaffe report on the wreckage says 100% damage to fuselage, wings and tail ie destroyed

Whatcha doing over here then, Jack? 🙂

Full details of the restoration will be in the Airworthiness Approval Note for the aircraft when the CAA publish it; just search here for AAN 29130

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=340&pagetype=65&appid=10

Must be true if it’s on the Web :diablo:

Not to start a flame war since this is a very beautiful a/c and my hat is off to the folks did it.
My question is how much of the original 44-13521 is in the a/c if any?? Since the original was hit in mid air by a 500# bomb and exploded, I’m finding it very hard to believe that enough of anything (even the data plate) was left to say that this is a restoration of a original combat a/c. Is this just a paperwork rebuild. I’ve heard talk of pre-restoration photos but none have been forthcoming ( a number of folks have asked). Another point would be that 44-13521 was not coded 5Q+B was actually 5Q+D.
Once again a beautiful flying P-51D and GREAT job to all involved!!!

Ouch *ducks!*

Have you got a pic then Jack 🙂

TT

44-13521

Not to start a flame war since this is a very beautiful a/c and my hat is off to the folks did it.
My question is how much of the original 44-13521 is in the a/c if any?? Since the original was hit in mid air by a 500# bomb and exploded, I’m finding it very hard to believe that enough of anything (even the data plate) was left to say that this is a restoration of a original combat a/c. Is this just a paperwork rebuild. I’ve heard talk of pre-restoration photos but none have been forthcoming ( a number of folks have asked). Another point would be that 44-13521 was not coded 5Q+B was actually 5Q+D.
Once again a beautiful flying P-51D and GREAT job to all involved!!!

Pimpernel

If you are over this way anytime soon, drop me a line either on here or AiX and I’ll meet up and show you around a few places. The Hardwick open day that I went to was great and if they are all like that then I’ll be going to as many as possible.

Marinell

Chris – any pics of what the Mustang looked like when she was found in France – was she being used in a technical school or something ?

A bowser will be wonderful

I will claim the brewery’s worth of ale… Just hope the weather is better than any previous time I have attempted to go somewhere this year.

by the yard or shall we just hook you up to a bowser? :diablo:

TT