Merged thread – Unelectable Corbyn and Let's not bomb ISIS

Gee, it might have something to do with the fact that that all branches of the US military spent much of the Cold War strapping nuclear warheads to everything they could think of regardless of practicality, in service of building up a hideous arsenal sufficient to extinguish most life on Earth, coupled with the simple fact that since 1945 the United States has been the most warlike nation on the planet, coupled with a national culture that more or less worships the military and believes that violence is the solution to all problems, and regularly features persons and sentiments as linked below on national television and as candidates for high office.

It’s no coincidence that the same Presidential bright spark who claimed that Islam “is a religion of peace” also claimed that “[the USA] is a peaceful nation”. The latter statement is actually far more ridiculous, given that “Islam” is a slippery, amorphous concept that is difficult to get a hold of to make such claims about one way or the other, whilst the United States of America and the activities of its federal government are much more well-defined and susceptible to analysis.

Bob, I am not clear how an ICBM strike would keep ‘adversaries’ from our shore. Unless you believe our Trident are aimed at Brighton and Clacton?

It’s more a question of perception. America has gained – not so much in evidence these days – a reputation for ‘muscle flexing’ perhaps as much due to Hollywood dross, as anything else. That perceived gung-ho attitude perhaps feeds a belief in certain quarters that America has an overly quick trigger finger.

… nobody ‘likes’ nuclear weapons…

After being a USAF public affairs person for two decades, I can assure you that many members of the “left” (for want of a better work, sorry if it offends anyone). really think the military loves the suckers and can’t wait to use them. I was confronted wit that issue more times than I care to recall…including time in the UK at an A-10 unit, the very non-nuclear capable A-10.
People believe what they want to believe.

Exactly so. JC’s seeming inability to think ‘it’ thru’ is very worrying.

Seems to me that the suggestion also made by Jeremy Corbyn that ‘Trident’ submarines could carry ballistic missiles armed with conventional warheads would be worse than useless.

Does Jeremy Corbyn imagine that Russia, for example, will wait until a warhead lands, confirms that it wasn’t a nuclear warhead, and then reacts, presumably not with a nuclear retaliation? Does Russia trust the United Kingdom not to have nuclear warheads on our ‘Trident’ ballistic missiles? Or will Russian military inspectors require access to our submarine fleet?

The more Jeremy Corbyn speaks about Trident, the clearer it seems to me, that he has very little understanding of what he is actually talking about; nobody ‘likes’ nuclear weapons but just getting rid of the only part of the problem that you have control of will not make the thing you don’t like cease to exist!

Excuse my ignorance, but why have a deterrent that isn’t a deterrent other than to keep your mates (sorry voters) in work?

The deterrent (as far as we know) has worked for the past many years. Now we are telling peoples to vote Labour and all adversaries are welcome to our shores.

Have I got this wrong?

I think that your aircraft carriers sans a/c are a more precise parallel. The other examples you give, are more of an exercise in ‘barrel scraping’ whereas our putative PM pays lip service to his humanitarian principles – I think.

That sentiment, if nothing else, disqualifies him from public office. But, when you think about it, hardly worse than DC showing his hand while allegedly negotiating Britain’s re-negotiation of EU membership !

For aircraft-carriers without aircraft? ‘Saving’ money by prematurely scrapping the Harrier fleet…

…but this was not nearly as bad a decision as scrapping the Sea Harrier fleet in 2006!

CD

Where’s the Tory equivalent ?

I think the honours for that situation are about equally shared between Labour and Conservative!

I’m sure the Tories will have fun with that; after all, it would be like an aircraft carrier without aircraft…

Looks like ‘you can have your cake and eat it’ after all. I didn’t think it was possible.

More evidence that Jeremy Corbyn is a man of ‘principles’?

When two principles are utterly conflicting he comes up with a compromise…..well, sort of! :rolleyes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35337432

According to the latest, for the Allies, all is not well in the land of ISIL/ISIS/DAESH. ” ISIL has revolutionised terror, FBI claims. (Report, 17th inst.).

This refers to a piece in the D. Tel. which reports that the director of the FBI, James Comey, said that: “the world faces a much more serious threat than ever before”. Mr. Comey did not specify what he meant exactly by ‘ever before’.

Mr. Comey wen’t on to comment that ISIL’s decentralised structure made for difficulty in attempting its destruction. The very point that I made on this forum.

And, perhaps with more than a nod to Donald Duck’s recent quacking, the FBI had ‘hundreds of ongoing investigations’ in all 50 US states as part of an attempt to stop those supporters of ISIL who might be engaged in preparing attacks.

So, there it is. Thousands of air strikes later we find ISIL apparently stronger than ever, with its roots in the Middle East now well anchored and receiving more than adequate financial nourishment thus enabling it to spread encouragement to those of its many supporters cosseted by the comforts of Western culture.

I don’t know why we don’t start paying Danegeld immediately. As before, it might save us a lot of grief.

Unless you’re a goat-herder.

I was listening to a podcast a few weeks back where they were interviewing an American comedian who was based in the Netherlands. In a previous life he had been a US soldier in Iraq, but was involved in various forms of legal torture and interrogation, and had to get out. One of the things he mentioned were the Iraqi prisoners with disgusting STDs which they contracted from shagging the wrong goats. Apparently the soldiers were being advised by young kids as to which goats were clean and which were diseased.

The podcast is entirely apolitical, and the ex-soldier was so disenfranchised with the US military that he got out fast! Therefore I don’t think he was propagating any of the usual ‘they durn **** goats‘ propaganda that seems to be popular on US-based forums.

In other news, there was an attack in Leytonstone Underground earlier this evening (5/12). Apparently a disturbed individual slashed another’s throat whilst shouting that ‘this is for Syria’.

So they have taken action……..you seem to prefer all or nothing whereas some of us are happy with something as opposed to sitting on our backsides with the door open and a sign saying Daesh welcome here……

Anyway this is another GD debate going nowhere as positions are fixed on both sides with nothing new being said as far as I can read.

We must all be masochists as we keep returning for more!!!;)

The U.S. military have something of a habit of exaggerating the body count. If I remember correctly, they wiped out the Vietcong many times.

Well we don’t know that. Things might have been a great deal worse if there had been no action.

I agree with your sentiments about the population and their representatives lacking the stomach for a body bag count but that is not an excuse for inaction.

Well it is if you are a politician likely to seek re-election !

The U.S calculate they have killed 10,000 militants. They have carried out 95% of the air strikes. Coupled with this hundreds of vehicles including tanks have been destroyed.
All of this would have helped in the ISIS advance in Iraq -that was stopped from reaching Baghdad .

ISIS don’t publicize their losses -indeed upper leadership of ISIS were wiped out by an Al Qaeda suicide bomber recently but it hardly gets a mention.