Merlin engine rumour

Here’s a good (bad ?) example of “demob”……. 🙁

TNZ

Mothballed assembly lines ? Ghost factories ? ‘New’ Spitfires still in their packing cases hidden in caves somwhere in Oz ?
Maybe………maybe not, who knows and time will tell but, there are huge dumps of all sorts of things everywhere, just what is down there, exactly where, and in what condition who knows? One thing is certain though, most of it is not worth worrying about.
We now live in different times. What is thought of as precious today was once common place, and at the end of WW2 was regarded as completely ‘surplus’.

Picking up on this thread after going to Boxted today reminds me a little of my late Uncle Derek.
Born in the village in 1930 and spending all the war there ‘looking through the fence’ he had vivid memories of the place and remembered that when the Americans moved out at least 6 complete P47’s, 2 Mustangs, a P38 and the remains of several B17’s, B24’s, B26’s were just bulldozed into a pit along with packing crates of brand new P&W 2800’s, Harley Davidson motorbikes, several Jeeps and staff cars. The remaining thousands of gallons of Avgas onsite was tipped on top (petrol was still rationed then) and the whole lot set ablaze. When the flames died down after a day or two the pits were filled in.
The place was then mothballed for a while until the RAF moved in when the same thing happened to all the domestic equipment, furnature, bedding and clothing. Boxted was just one among dozens that this happened at.

Years ago I worked with a guy who was ex Canadian Artillery. Wounded and partially disabled in Italy he wound up in Colchester and in 1944 married local girl and stayed here until has passing. Vince spent two years until mid ’47 burying all the US 8/9th Airforce technical kit at Earls Colne.
Cases of wrist watches, binoculars, radios, airborne radars, bomb and gunsights, 3 million pencils, 400,000 fountain pens, navigational equipment, cameras, sidearms, medical supplies and equipment (most of it brand new and un opened) rolled over by a ‘dozer’ and then dumped in pits and buried. Mind you the contents of Vince’s shed had to be seen to be believed, a real Aladdins cave !!

Similarly the “Abbey Field” at one time in the middle of Colchester Barracks contains the personal kit items, boots, clothing etc of more than 200,000 British servicemen de-mobbed through Harwich at the end of WW2.

It may seem like wanton destruction to us today, particularly as at the time millions in Europe were barefoot and homeless, but the giant world wide industrial machine that had grown up (in all countries) around the war effort had to be sustained, slowly wound down and then back up again. Flooding ‘the market’ with millions of items of surplus equipment would have been fatal economically as nations slowly recovered to ‘normality’ despite the fact that so many had no proper food, clothing or shelter in the immeadiate post war years.

In cases of large wars there are generally two sides but always two winners, the victors and capitalism !
Phil.
(steps down off soapbox icon).

(I believe there was also a large dump for crashed aircraft at Cowley, wonder if it would be possible to unearth anything there…)

That would have been where the German (only) aircraft wreckage was collected to/was melted down, I remember seeing pics. The site is now a timber merchants

Glasgow airport has Mosi. parts & merlins buried on site, now built over, under a taxi way or something. (somebody at the DH museum said yes they know when I told them )

I know this bit of info is slightly off topic but thought you might be interested anyway.
The Morris Motors plant at Cowley(Oxford) not only repaired Spitfires but Hurricanes and a good many other types as No1 CRU. They also built over 1000 Tiger Moths there.

Castle Bromwich…

The factory with the rumoured remains is Castle Bromwich. There are some people who say they know exactly where crated items remain but the local housing trust (who owns the land where they lie) believes that they are worth millions in their current state (ignoring the fact that lots of money needs to be spent recovering them in the first place) and want a ‘slice of the action’.

I was told a story that a contractor was doing some work on site demolishing a small building and they came across a crated engine in the basement (there was even some paperwork with it). The driver of the JCB was mysteriously given the rest of the day off (paid) by the foreman and when he returned the crate had disappeared!!! I was told this by one of the guys working on the site…would be nice to think think this was true!! There are also rumours of a crated Sabre engine there, however much I want this to be true I can’t see why a Sabre would be at the site of a factory that built Spitfires and Lancasters!!!!

If only…..

This was a long time legend about the site at Langley in Berkshire, near the M4. There was the factory building Hurricanes etc. At the end of the war it was demolished and a different factory built on the site which was used by Ford’s to build trucks. There were stories of hundreds of Merlins in their crates in the foundations. I remember hearing this story in the 1960s while working in the area. I think the Ford factory was demolished in recent years but I didn’t see anything about the discovery of such a gold mine :rolleyes:
mmitch.

I recall a thread last year much like this one. There was mention of a factory that was reputed to have it’s foundations laid on crated, new Merlins, somewhere near Brum, or Coventry. Anyone else got any info? There was, IIRC a ‘plan’ to excavate this haul through official channels, due to their percieved value and quantity involved.

Always worth following-up rumours, you just never know. If there was a site like this containing tooling and parts, I’d think it more likely at a dispersed site such as the underground engine factory operated by Bristol at Corsham in Wiltshire. There is nothing there now though.

Cheer Eddie…

Will give them a try

and remember if it wasnt for a british general VW would not be anything.

And he’s certainley got a lot to answer for……… :p

Actually putting pendant head on if you are refering to the late Ivan Hirst, he was only a Major, not of staff rank……. :rolleyes:

As a last resort…has anyone come across drawings for Hawker (Typhoon/Tempest or Hurricane)? Anyone know someone? Its been 5 years and I still haven’t found many!!!

Dave – you might want to contact the West Yorkshire Archive Service. I know that the Yorkshire Patent Steam Wagon Company archives held there have some Tempest stuff in them, from their time as an Air Min. contractor. I doubt there’s a huge amount in there, and I have no idea what kind of information it is, but it’s always worth a look!

I do work for bentley and have ben all around the site and there are NO merlins ANYWHERE. and remember if it wasnt for a british general VW would not be anything.

I posted something in a similar vein last year.

Posting this to see if anybody in the Midlands, UK knows anything about it.

Chatting in the pub yesterday to an itinerant Brummie who started talking about “Merlin test beds” being demolished soon.
As I understand, Massey-Ferguson have stopped tractor production in Coventry and the site’s being sold for housing. The site was originally Standard Motors.
Apparently, these buildings are still camouflaged, still have test procedures on the walls, all equipment intact and look like the staff just left for a tea break.

I don’t recall Standard Motors building Merlins. Do I remember right?
Were they part of the Repair Organisation?

More to the point, it sounds to me that these should be Listed Buildings.

Any comments or more accurate knowledge?

The aforementioned “Brummie” would be very upset if he knew how I worded it, he’s from Walsall.

(when it comes down to it the British public paid for these drawings)

I think depreciation has taken care of that factor…

Have you tried talking to the Mini PR people? They are interested in PR – if the ‘found’ something useful and could ‘hand it over in a blaze of publicity’, something might happen. Going on about ‘the British public paying for it’ isn’t going to win friends and influence as they say.

Good luck.

BMW and Cowley plant…

Cowley was also used to repair Typhoons, Albermarles & midget subs (or was being geared up to do that at some point). During the process sets of drawings for these items were given to them on glass plate. Being a Typhoon nut I obviously followed this one up. Turns out that these were supposed to be part of the ‘heritage’ collection which were not included in the sale and would be sent to Gaydon. They were expecting them soon after the sale. According to Gaydon BMW then reneged on the deal and kept them!!! I have tried to contact Cowley to find out information, as I have been trying for years to get Typhoon drawings, and all I have been able to find out is that Kodak have been contracted to look after the archives.

Reading some of the points made in this thread…are these drawings in danger? (when it comes down to it the British public paid for these drawings) Does anyone know who I can contact to try and locate them? Has anyone seen them?

As a last resort…has anyone come across drawings for Hawker (Typhoon/Tempest or Hurricane)? Anyone know someone? Its been 5 years and I still haven’t found many!!!

Nice story, but I think there is very little chance. R-R Heritage are red hot and I doubt there would be stacks of unfinished Merlins lying about in there somehow. If only….

Would there have been a tie up though between R-R Heritage and the car plant, being they were two unconnected seperate companies….. :confused:

Unfinished engines maybe a little far fetched me-thinks, but perhaps not so what could be important tooling…..if true of course…..:confused:

Perhaps Fluffy should nudge Clive Rowley to get somebody with lots of egg-on-hat to turn up at Crewe to investigate…… 😀 😀 😉

Hi Firebird,
Well, I’m a cynic – but I’d love you to prove me wrong!

It is ALWAYS worth following these things up; I’m not saying what goes for Cowley goes for Crewe, but just adding another 2d for broadening the database.

Cheers

Nice story, but I think there is very little chance. R-R Heritage are red hot and I doubt there would be stacks of unfinished Merlins lying about in there somehow. If only….

Hi Firebird,
Well, I’m a cynic – but I’d love you to prove me wrong!

It is ALWAYS worth following these things up; I’m not saying what goes for Cowley goes for Crewe, but just adding another 2d for broadening the database.

Cheers

Good story!

Had a tour of the ‘New’ Mini works at Cowley, Oxford (the ex-Morris works, where they rebuilt Spitfires in W.W.II)

Run by BMW, as is well known, what is less well known is that any buildings NOT in use were razed to the ground and planted with grass. Why? So they don’t have to pay council tax (or whatever it is for factories).

In light of the nice new ‘football fields’ all over the works, it casts another level of doubt over the above story.

Cheers!

😮 Actually James, this Bentley employee was hinting that this is what is destined for the Crewe site, and the old chap that told the storey was lamenting the fact that because of the war thing VW might just destroy it all with no thought………

He then said that he will tell ‘that nice chap from the RAF vintage flight'( :rolleyes: ) if he came into the dealership again…. :confused:

After a quizical look from me, he told me that he was an old customer….turned out he was refering to Paul Day….

I’m obviously inclinded to dismiss this…..but that little voice in the back of the mind is still muttering ‘but what if’……..

Cheers,
Graham

I work for Jaguar – there is a Spitfire Conference room at Castle Bromwich, and apparently there is a Spitfire wing in the roof of one of the production halls (used to repair a hole apparently). While I was with Ford (in Essex) we had to host a top level meeting with loads of execs. As the meeting co-incided with the Birmingham Motor show it was decided to used CB as the venue and I did the support work. Considering that a lot of the Execs were German, someone with a sense of humour at Jaguar booked us the Spitfire room….. Knowing how Jag operate, I wouldn’t be in the least surprised if there were relics at Castle Brom somewhere.

I’m at Whitley, but the site has been through a lot of changes – the only clues to it’s heritage is the lattice concrete used for camoflage (it allows the grass to grow through) all over the place.

JC

Good story!

Had a tour of the ‘New’ Mini works at Cowley, Oxford (the ex-Morris works, where they rebuilt Spitfires in W.W.II)

Run by BMW, as is well known, what is less well known is that any buildings NOT in use were razed to the ground and planted with grass. Why? So they don’t have to pay council tax (or whatever it is for factories).

In light of the nice new ‘football fields’ all over the works, it casts another level of doubt over the above story.

Cheers!