Messerschmitt Raised from the Sea During 1976

Hello
I donot know if its the same Messerschmitt in the book called

The reluctant Messerschmitt by Don Everson
First published in 1978.

Published by Portcullis press Ltd
Surry
ISBN 0-86108-018-1

YES I HAVE THE SUN NEWS PAPER WITH IT IN THE CENTRE THATS NEW TO ME 1978. NOW ALL I SEE HIS SOME POP STARS.RUBBISH.

Reading some of the comments here, they go a long way to explaining something very strange that happened a few years ago.

The guy who was my editor at the time was contacted by someone who wanted to do some of the Kent airfelds for our Airfield Focus series. He seemed very keen and enthusiastic, so we arranged all we could, and waited for the manuscript(s) to arrive.

We waited… and waited…

We re-contacted… ring ring….. ring ring….”oh yeah… be with you in a few months… I’m having difficulties…” click

We waited…. and waited…

Contacted again… ring ring….. ring ring… “ah… yeah… my house was broken into the other week and they stole the manuscript” Click… burrrrrrrrrr

All very odd – we never did get anything from him, and it got me wondering if there is a Kent Aviation Mafia and I am not paying the right back-hander!

Anon wrote:

I actually did write a few things down on the back of my hand but it’s not exactly a sheet of A4 is it?!

All I can say is that you are lucky to still have your hand, then!

Stories are legion of cards being removed from cameras and phones and pages torn out of notebooks. Its all quite bizarre. I know of one (now deceased) aviation historian who attended one of the museum’s digs many moons ago and who had the temerity to take a photo. His camera was taken off him and the film removed and exposed. More recently, a well known aviation historian and writer who had helped the museum significantly (and been a member) in its early days turned up with his wife, a Dutch friend, and his wife. On arrival they were met at the door and turned away – having made a long journey – and refused entry on the basis that he was “writing another” book and his visit to the museum might be in order to glean information for said book!

Refusual of entry is arbitary and quite random, it seems. Last year a party of five turned up there on a holiday trip that involved a tour of RAF Battle of Britain sites of interest. Because of their “excessive interest” (the words of the party members) they were told they could not come in. Evidently its OK to visit if you have absolutely no interest in doing so!!

All the evidence is that if one has a deep interest in the subject, is affiliated with any other aviation museum, is a researcher or writer, a collector or known enthusiast (or if you declare your interest or knowledge in the subject) the chances of being denied entry are exceedingly high.

I understand, though, that it is otherwise a fine collection.

In my view with this apparently hostile atitude towards its visitors and potential visitors it should not receive any funding from the public purse or any charitable institution. It is out of step with virtually every other museum I have visited.

Planemike

Accordingly to their website:

In keeping with common practice (?), on grounds of both security (?) and copyright, we regret that no cameras, video recorders or any other types of recording equipment (including notebooks) are allowed in the Museum.

VERBAL ABUSE of any kind will NOT be tolerated. [SNIP] We have had occurrences where rude members of the public have sworn, committed criminal damage and threatened physical harm to our members. These people will not be tolerated and they will be ejected, using reasonable force if applicable. Please accept it is also our right to eject you from the museum if you do not abide by our rules regarding photography etc. without a refund as you will have already entered with the understanding that you have accepted our conditions before you purchased a ticket. We are glad to say that 98 per cent of our visitors are courteous, understand our rules and a as consequence have an enjoyable trip to the museum.

—————————————————————

Firstly, not being able to take photographs is no excuse for verbal abuse. EVERYONE should abide by the rules.

That said, I don’t know of any museum that posts such an irate TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF ENTRY on its website. But you have to ask yourself why would members of the public want to verbal abuse the staff of this museum (which they paid good money to enter) and also, what constitutes verbal abuse? Does this message constitute written abuse? Making a discreet complaint, does that constitute abuse? The Kent Battle of Britain Museum has a serious problem regarding it’s paranoia over people taking pictures. This is Hawkinge NOT Area 51!!!

Copyright Issues? Unless you plan to publish your own illustrated guidebook and sell it directly outside their entrance, I don’t think anyone is going to make any money out of this museum or its exhibits. Maybe this negative attitude is why they haven’t secured any external funding? Any information displayed should be openly, freely and publicly disseminated (names and dates, etc), and to prevent the taking of notes goes against the ethos of educating future generations of what happened in Kent during 1940.

I guess this issue has been raised before, but I don’t know of any aviation museum in the UK that doesn’t allow photography or is so obsessed with people with cameras.

Also, according to the Kent Battle of Britain Museum website, “We are glad to say that 98 per cent of our visitors are courteous, understand our rules and as consequence have an enjoyable trip to the museum.” Does that mean that 2% are not courteous? Not sure how many visitors they attract, but if the figure is 10,000pa then that’s 200 people who’ve been rude and obnoxious. I don’t know of any museum that attracts so many naughty visitors…!

Photo ban

I spent an afternoon at the KBoBM three year’s ago. It is, without doubt, an excellent museum and the quantity and quality of the stuff there is astounding.
When much of the BoB stuff was being discovered and excavated in the 1960’s-80’s much of it must have ended up at that museum. There is a wealth of information too, but……………… I wasn’t allowed to take notes.
I actually did write a few things down on the back of my hand but it’s not exactly a sheet of A4 is it?! so I didn’t get much.
As described earlier in this thread, no pics were allowed either. When you are in a place like that and it is your sphere of interest, there is so much info that you want to record for none-other than your own purposes. Very frustrating.
I could only imagine that they must have had a bad experience at some time at somebody’s hands. I seem to recall that there was some serious rivalry amongst groups and individuals in the south of England 20-odd years ago. Maybe it’s a hangover from those troubled days?
Notwithstanding the above, I would wholeheartedly recommend a day out there – just make sure you leave your notebook and camera at home.

Didn’t Maplin’s sell a mini spy camera that would fit in your lapel………..?

Anon

Well, I know that I am in very good company!

A pity that it is not possible for photos of the Me 109 parts under discussion here to be either taken or published.

Time to get those crayons out again, Junk Collector!

My sister (a head teacher) and brother-in-law (a retired VERY senior Police Officer and now lay-preacher at Ely Cathedral) visited a while ago. Because of my interest they asked the staff if they knew me. “Yes, why?” was the answer. They explained their relationship to me and were asked to leave immediately, escorted to their car by two staff members!

I’m impressed, it’s not many people who can say that not only are they banned from a public museum…but also their relatives!

You must be doing something right.:D:D:D

What’s the name of that book..”How to win friends and influence people?” :D:D:D

Bit of an addendum – I spoke to somneone who ‘knows’ yesterday and apparently there has been no further significant deterioration in the 109 airframe since recovery. The partially restored centre section is in storage somewhere, which is a pity.

Pity, but I think that they did their best with the resources they had (the cost of the operation was about 650 pounds). These days more information is available how to deal with corrosionm (and even now it’s still difficult).
If Stirling EF311 would be brought up from the channel it will be race against time to stop corrosion.

Cheers

Cees

With the right team (and financial backing) even that can be done.

Non-aviation archaeologists often deal with even more fragile items, and have found ways and methods to save them. When recovering 1000 year old wood from mud, it rots almost instantaneously when in contact with the atmosphere (alot faster than any metal aircraft), still they manage.

It would be a serious problem, but as any such problem, it can be overcome.

How much is left of that Stirling?

Pity, but I think that they did their best with the resources they had (the cost of the operation was about 650 pounds). These days more information is available how to deal with corrosionm (and even now it’s still difficult).
If Stirling EF311 would be brought up from the channel it will be race against time to stop corrosion.

Cheers

Cees

I believe the tail is still there. Never recovered. Correction….it WAS there then. By now I expect what is left is spread up and down the coast. I think the wings and what else is left will slowly rot apart.

As the rivets were already popping only days after the recovery I would hate to think what the condition of the wings would be now after three decades.
The fuselage already looked quite bad after recovery. Was the tail ever recovered as they planned?

Cees

I am pretty sure that the Brenzett team just got overwhelmed with the project and it stalled. Then, much (if not all) of Brenzett’s Battle of Britain related material transferred – along with some of the Brenzett Museum members – to the Kent Battle of Britain Museum. This included the remains of the aircraft in question. Sadly, nothing else has been done with the rebuild/restoration/preservation of the airframe which, I am reliably informed, is in a bit of a sad state.

I also ordered the book Cees – got it today – it’s excellent. Looking at the photos they made a good start on rebuilding the centre section and undercarriage parts – they look very good. I wonder what happened…

Well, I received the (pocket)book yesterday evening and have thumbed through it. A very interesting story and the pics in it are great. Pity it didn’t went as the team planned. ALso very strange that the onlookers reacted so strongly at the time and the team had difficulty to keep the crowd away from the wreck.

To read that at night one could hear the rivets popping through the saltwater action was also interesting.

Cheers

Cees

Well, I received the (pocket)book yesterday evening and have thumbed through it. A very interesting story and the pics in it are great. Pity it didn’t went as the team planned. ALso very strange that the onlookers reacted so strongly at the time and the team had difficulty to keep the crowd away from the wreck.

To read that at night one could hear the rivets popping through the saltwater action was also interesting.

Cheers

Cees

Dare devil

Cees

I have photos but am reluctant to post them.

Oh go on post the pics, its no as if you are going to get banned is it from visiting:diablo: Perhaps there is a law on posting photos of artifacts said to be “crown property” which fell on british soil. MBE could i have one?, it seems its not what you do here any more but who you know

Someone here MUST have some pics they were able to sneak off there, let’s see them just to spite these nasty museum ppl:diablo:

I visited the museum many years ago and was very disappointed to find out I couldn’t take photos, after all that was the main reason I went. I think their attitude is disgusting, maybe we should launch a petition to boycott the place, and see what happens when their entrance receipts fall away and they are faced with closure, well, that’s it, I’m probably banned now. :diablo:

I spoke to one of the divers who helped lift this a/c many years ago. He told me that they put steel chains around the undercarriage legs and got it up that way – it was a protracted effort, the 109 acquiring the name of “the reluctant messerschmitt” as has already been mentioned.

I also recall reading – I think in an after the battle publication that a second 109 had been found in the sea not too far away. I always wondered what happened with this one… Anyone comment? Andy perhaps?

I agree with you. As would many others to whom this applies.