Met Police to extract suspects' mobile phone data

Re 37

PPP

As you correctly state, that is exactly the present situation.

Re 36

Err, yes. Yours sounds a whole heap better. My choice has another meaning !

John Green

@kev35

Because the police are not being accused of a crime, and so innocent until proven guilty does not apply. The comparison could be made, but to be accurate we would need to compare it not to an innocent person, but to a repeat offender who each time is found guilty, and is never given any punishment of any description after each conviction and is now in the dock again. What you propose then would create an endless cycle of “oh well they lied before, but this time it’ll be different this time”!

😀 Would that perhaps be ‘staffed’ ? :confused:

Re 29

Lincoln 7

Jim,
This is no old flannel. It’s a pity our present day Police force (sorry, Service)
isn’t stuffed by more like you. They wouldn’t be the object of derision and contempt that they are to-day.

John Green

ppp.

You are only making claims that the Police will automatically screen everyone’s phone. They have stated that it will only be when there is suspicion that the phone has been used in the course of criminal activity. You’re one of those who talks about being innocent until proven guilty, a courtesy the law extends to the people, perhaps you could extend the same courtesy to the Police and wait to see if your fears are grounded in truth?

Regards,

kev35

Now young man EXACTLY how did you come by this info, or are you an insider with Thames Valley?
Jim.
Lincoln .7
@ppp

Which info? That’s a very broad question.

As the advert says,”Calm down, dear.” (Or seek a sense of humour transplant.) Your way-over-the-top, silly toilet example was asking for a sideswipe, and, since most people are aware that the toilet and crap production are normally inextricably intertwined, so Kev35’s comment was a wry analogy to that fact, but obviously went clear over the top of your head (made me laugh, by the way, Kev.)
How about winding your neck in, and making sensible statements?

These are all claims, not fact, as was his. If it’s such a bad example, do tell us why people should be allowed privacy in the toilet, but not on the phone? What makes you draw the line at the toilet and not at the phone? It seems very arbitrary!

@kev35

The police assurances are worthless because this is how rights are taken away. They start by saying it will just be against a small group that nobody will stand up for and then it widens. Our rights shouldn’t depend on the polce being generous enough to allow us to have them.

As I’ve pointed out above, the concern is not about my privacy, but the privacy of the citizens of the UK as a whole. If you wish to run away from problems though that is your choice, but I believe problems should be resolved and our country made to be the best it can be 🙂

@TonyT

They need to be paid 30k starting off, the house prices are insane.

Jim.

If you joined in 1996 as you state and served 15 years then you must have only retired last year in 2011. Haven’t you also said you were 70 now? That means you were 54 when you became a Police Officer? Surely not, I suspect

kev35

Senior moment Kev, Senior moment, (Even repeat things now) Yes your quite right, I could blame it on a typo, but hold my hands up, it was in 1966 that I joined.
Not as I stated 1996, where the hell that came from, I don’t know, although I can prove it if need be.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Jim.

If you joined in 1996 as you state and served 15 years then you must have only retired last year in 2011. Haven’t you also said you were 70 now? That means you were 54 when you became a Police Officer? Surely not, I suspect you have got the dates wrong somewhere?

ppp.

If you think the assurances of the Police are worthless and that the Government is increasingly interested in every nuance of your private life (including, presumably, your toilet habits) why not move to a Country where your paranoia can be given full rein?

To turn an analogy about paranoia on it’s head, just because organisations have the technological ability to spy on you doesn’t necessarily mean they are.

Regards,

kev35

And good for you, a lot of today’s youth seems to think they they should be paid 30k plus starting out and not do anything for it..

My service pension I will get for 15 years is a farce lol, when I left in 89 it was £25 a week index linked from 60, they gave me a letter I had to produce to prove I was entitled when I reach 60… Probably worth £26.50 now

JohnG. John, Yes, I cannot moan at my monthly pension. I joined in 1996, and eleven and a half percent of my wages was taken in Superannuation. Bear in mind, that at that time, Coppers were leaving in droves, over poor pay.
Against the rules, and which was a sackable offence, having 3 kids, I had to moonlight to make ends meet. That 11 and a half percent was a huge chunk out of my wages. Then just as things were looking up, I had 15 yrs in, they changed the pay structure so that I had no pay rises for 5 or 6 yrs, whilst others caught up.I worked Bl**dy hard for my pittance, as thats what it was
You lived under the threat of being moved if you stepped out of line by the slightest margine, they don’t know they are born today.Yes, we have 2 cars, have our holidays in the U.K. (Previous dose of Cancer knocked going abroad since 1988), but I dont drink, or smoke. I am not a tight wad, but don’t throw it away.My wife took up a job as a Carer in an old folks home, so yes, at present I am in relativly good health so I am well off, I like you could do with a bit more, but good health beats being well off any day.
Hope this explains why retired Coppers seem well off,WE HAVE PAID FOR IT for 30yrs.
Jim

Lincoln .7

There is something rather more interesting about the Police. Or, at least about the sample I know or have known. Whether they are still employed or retired they all appear to be very comfortably off, lacking none of the comforts and toys of life.

If this is all paid for out of pension or income, then their income or pension must be pretty hefty. The personnel that I’ve known were all constables – nothing above that rank. They all indulged in expensive hobbies, with two or three up-to-date cars in the family while engaged in a range of activities such as flying, parachuting, motor cycling and sailing or power boating.

How do they do it on a Pc’s income? Perhaps they have a two income or more household. Perhaps they do lots of well paid overtime. I don’t know. Perhaps someone does.

John Green

JohnG This is not applicable to the Met, they make their own rules up as they go along;)
Jim

Lincoln .7

Calling someone’s position “crap”, so you’re a real intellectual heavyweight then eh?

As the advert says,”Calm down, dear.” (Or seek a sense of humour transplant.) Your way-over-the-top, silly toilet example was asking for a sideswipe, and, since most people are aware that the toilet and crap production are normally inextricably intertwined, so Kev35’s comment was a wry analogy to that fact, but obviously went clear over the top of your head (made me laugh, by the way, Kev.)

Every resource? How about beating confessions out of prisoners?

How about winding your neck in, and making sensible statements?

Re 18

Kev 35

Last para.

Since when did we have to ‘prove innocence?’ Call me old fashioned but I rather thought that the essence of our Criminal Justice system is the presumption of innocence – we’re all innocent until proven guilty. Or, is that no longer the case?

John Green

Now young man EXACTLY how did you come by this info, or are you an insider with Thames Valley?

Jim.

Lincoln .7

@ppp

Its like monitoring emails, stick a Stamp on it and post it.

Pretty soon cell phones will have a self destruct button.

Blackberry and iphone have a secure wipe feature. Also on a Blackberry you get a couple guesses at the password before it gets secure wiped.

@Lincoln 7
Some strangely have three…

Kev, Thinking like a Criminal would, they would, if they have any sense, own 2 mobile phones, One to make ordinary “Normal” calls, and one for Criminal use, If they go out on a job, take both phones, if there is a likelyhood of being caught, bung the Crim phone and the Police will only then find the Goody phone on the Criminal.

Anyone want to buy a cheap throw away phone for a fiver, cheap as chips, honest Gov.:D

Jim

Lincoln .7

Pretty soon cell phones will have a self destruct button.

@Kev

That proves for sure you didn’t read my post above, as I have actually addressed this point already! The police assurances are worthless, they say it will be very limited scope to get the principle in place, then they drive the wedge home and expand it to the max.

Again you fail to give an example of how it will prove someone innocent, you just state it can.