Metro/Subway Systems

Metro de Madrid

www.metromadrid.es

Quite good, I use it almost everyday, very useful to move in Madrid, where traffic is always awful

The national standard was set at 4 foot 8 inches. The 7 foot gauge had to be changed at considerable cost.

Yes good point about the rolling stock but the railway needs to function as an entire system i.e. larger track gauge requiring larger tunnel gauges equal greater construction costs, shorter life and higher maintenance costs for bridges and other structures etc.

Got it in one Rabie!!

7 foot allows geater stability at higer sppeds – also alowed for a better engine design and more passenger IIRC

rabie 😉

Opps sorry mate my mistake. Just get carried away talking up us Civil Engineers. But one question why’d you set the GWR gauge to 7 foot?

Just to clear things up here – Marc Isambard Brunel was a Sir, his son Isambard Kingdom Brunel was NOT a Sir.

Never expected the thread to go this far but good to hear everyone’s views. Thanks! Forgive me for the longish post.

Keltic, a few of LU’s tunnels run close to the bottom of the Thames River but we’re lucky that the clay soil is fairly impermable to water. I remember a story that one of the tunnels is only 3 metres below the river bed and that there was a risk of the many unexploded WWII bombs in the Thames could destroy it. A crazy plan was devised where a huge hopper of sand would be lifted by helicopter and dumped onto the riverbed to plug any holes in the tunnel. Fortunately LU went for strengthening the tunnel lining instead.

It’s a favourite pastime for Londoners to moan about the Underground but much of it is past its shelf life. Some parts are 130 years old.

Its gradual decline began during the post war years. Much of this is due to the way its funded ie state funded. In general the older something is the more it costs to repair – just like an old house. But the real problem is for example, imagine if you were responsible for maintaining the system, a long term maintenance project costs £100million and the government agrees to pay £20m over the next 5 years. What if the after only 2 years Gordon Brown comes back and says look I need the money for the health service so I can’t afford to pay you? The effect is that you can only plan in the short term not being able to afford to cure long standing problems and end up pumping in money in an ad hoc basis. In the government’s eagerness to rid it of the public purse a controversial plan is privatise the engineer’s section and get private firms to raise the necessary cash.

AFAIK there are only plans by LU to install air conditioning for the larger sub-surface trains and not the tube trains. The deep level tubes such as the Bakerloo and Central line are only 12 foot diameter tunnels. Fitting a suitable aircon unit would take up too much space and reduce passenger space. Another reason is that they would consume too much power from the traction current that the trains are powered by. Instead engineers are looking at ways to cool the tunnel itself.

Major projects in the pipeline are an upgrade to the signalling systems (allowing a greater frequency of trains) and much of the tracks. Other options to reduce overcrowding are to add additional carriages to the trains but only if station platforms can be extended. The problem how do you this while keeping the trains running? From what I’ve heard the New York Subway has two tracks for each direction so a 24 hour service can be ran.

Londoner’s are still awaiting the construction of Crossrail a new underground rail link across London when built will relieve the crowded Underground. But after a decade of political arguing it is yet to get started.

Elsewhere in London is the tunnelling work carried out in Stratford for the Channel Tunnel Rail Link, a high speed link to central London. The French had completed there own link to Paris in time for the opening of the Chunnel – 13 years ago! French engineers are held in high regard and are considered quite innovative – the first to use reinforced concrete with Britain’s great engineers including French born Sir Marc Brunel and his son Sir Isambard Kingdom Brunel.

In ending British engineering can be quite good once it eventually mobilises itself.:D

No matter how good a public transport system is the automobile will always be God 🙁

Dave

ok comet 😉

rabie 😉

70-80 years ago, Los Angeles used to have the biggest, most effective mass transit system in the world. Only a tiny portion was underground (if you ever saw the movie MacArthur they used the old subway tunnel for Corrigidor). The grade level Red and Yellow cars served the entire LA area from the desert to the mountains to the sea.

In the 1930’s Firestone Rubber, Atlantic Richfield Oil, and General Motors bought up all opf the privately owned transit companies to encourage the purchase of private autromobiles. By the 1960’s
LA was choking on traffic congestion and the beloved Red Cars and Yellow Cars were just a memory. The movie Who Framed Rodger Rabbit used this bit of LA history as its central theme.

By the early 1980’s LA voted to build an underground transit system which is mostly operational now. Clean, modern, comfortable it is as good as any trasnit system in the world. Well, except for one thing. It does not go anywhere.

The Taxi and Parking interests made certain that the system does not go to the airports. It does not serve any of the major commuter routes. And it will not take you to the beach. You can hike from the transit line to one sports stadium, but you would not want to be walking in that neighborhood at night.

But it is clean, modern and effecient.

Scott

London is very extensive and for sheer range of stations and ease of use it wins.

However it is very run down and LUL have a sado-masochistic hatred, blind hatred, of air conditioning. Conditions inside a packed tube in rush hour in the middle of summer are horrible. Hot and smelly, especially if someone is holding on to a ceiling rail and their wet armpit is in your face. Disgusting, you can’t really move away.

I have travelled quite intensively, and used Underground everywhere, but I am not really fond of it (I am a bit claustrophobic), I rather prefer a combined metro/tram system, like in many german cities or simply modern tram which is much more effective, friendly and cheaper, like in Strassbourg. In Spain we have three undergrounds, Madrid, Barcelona, and Bilbao. All of them are clean, reasonably modern and effective. Bilbao one is quite new and designed by Norman Foster. Valencia is the third biggest city in Spain and has tram. Seville tried to build one metro systems, but when they had digged all the tunnels they discovered that the water from the river came easily in, and couldn´t prevented it, so all the tunnels were refiled again.

dcfly , you’re right. London subway is much more expensive.
Regardless the escalators breakdown both are very similar.

I experienced the London Underground and the Paris Metro, both can be quick and reliable and both can be overcrowded and unreliable , yea I know it sounds contradictary but lets face it both cities a seriously overcrowded and its not always the operators fault when the systems break down, as they do from tome to time.

I cant speak to much for the Paris Metro as I only used it for a week to get round the city but was impressed with it all the same even though we did experience a few delays and crowded rush hour trains. my biggest moan about it was the long walks through pedestrian subways to connecting lines, but otherwise ok.

I drive a bus in London and there isnt day goes by when we have to carry ticket holders on behalf of the Underground because of some reason or other, one common reason of late is overcrowding where some stations are closed for safety sake, but the travelling public dont see it like that, to them they’ve just been inconvenienced so they look for some one to blame, I dont honestly think the London Underground is as bad as the media would have us believe, just imagine life without it.
Everyday is like putting a litre into a half litre pot, most large cities are like it, and the underground is a quick way of moving people from A to B, and when it carries the ammount of people that the LUL does it stands to reason theres going to be breakdowns.

btw, I dont pay for travel in London as I have a staff pass but I saw a fare list not to long ago and was amazed at the high fares LUL charge. The buses are not to bad though with a 70p flat fare
and an array of different daily, weekly and monthly passes to pick from.

Dave

Rabie – I was in Leeds yesterday, and one train which came in was literally just one carriage unit – you know the kind which has the drivers cab integrated into the carriage bit, it was full and god knows how folk managed on it because it was one of those which has loads of stops and fill up at each without emptying. The trains in the north of England are as bloody pathetic as those in the south.

hahha – we have 30 to 40 year old slam doors still (admitedly on the way out) – they will kill you in a crash, they are unsafe, you can put your ehad out the window, they stink, etc, etc

back under gov control the south east made the most money on the railways but the north, esp scotland got all the new trains

anyway they are gettig a bit better -still sardine cnas at rush hours – there is no way they could put double deckers on though it would be a good idea (at peak everyone is standing all the way to london and then on the tube)

rabie 😉

These trains are comfortable enough though…

Yes they are, that is the problem of driving into suburbs, where there is delinquance.

Usually, the 2 level trains in Belgium are “P” trains, those used in peak times. Avoid them like hell, they are very uncomfortable.

The whole RER in Paris should consist of those double deck things, some RER trains are really dirty, horrid, cramped things. I’ve always caught them at Gare du Nord but I’ve never been able to go further than one stop before they go out of service, even on longer lines.
I’ve also seen double deck things at Berchem near Antwerp, but not often.

I forgot to mention Hannover. This german city known for its international commercial fairs also has a mixed tram / metro system. The center is underground, the rest is a normal tramway.
The most interesting is that some stations have a platform. In that case, the floor near the doors does not move. If the car stops in the middle of nowhere, the floors lowers and become a stair… Cool!
Comet: the french cars with 2 levels are not part of the Metro, thet form the RER, Réseau Express Regional: regional trains that link the center to the suburbs… Just avoid them at night 🙂