MH434 Rivets

That wouldn’t surprise me, it still happens.

“Actually, the first mk IX’s were converted from mk V’s.”

The first Mk V’s converted to IX’s were literally finished Mk V’s shipped to Rolls Royce and physically converted. You will see evidence of extended cowlings and odd patch pieces on the cowlings in service.

Contract changes started on ‘day 2’ of Spitfire production.

Mark

Yes…but not this one. 🙂

Mark

MH434, part of 9th order to contract no.981687/39/C23(c) for mk Vc’s but built as mk IX. Built at Castle Bromwich.

Actually, the first mk IX’s were converted from mk V’s.

Yes…but not this one. 🙂

Mark

Started as MK V and at the end it was MK IX, during the war these guys got to be very drunk or stoned or thinking about their wifes…no idea, but something went wrong… 😉 :dev2:
Tom

Actually, the first mk IX’s were converted from mk V’s.

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the information…my architecture teacher from me told me: “sometimes you need to do things wrong to let it look right”

Probably this is an example of what the man was teaching me.
All the rivets…must be almost impossible to put on a small scale Spitfire…and when you want the correct size then it would be like hell…so I will make all my rivets 1mm in diameter and some 1,5mm.

@ Brian: Did you received my PM?

Started as MK V and at the end it was MK IX, during the war these guys got to be very drunk or stoned or thinking about their wifes…no idea, but something went wrong… 😉 :dev2:

I’m happy this happenend because this is something that makes the lady very special and maybe one of a kind…almost like my wife. 😀

When I’m at the point of no return then I mean start with the rivets, at that moment I will post a few pictures if you want.

Regards and have a nice weekend.
Tom

MH434 started down the production line as a MK V. came out the other end as A MK IX.

Interesting 🙂

Mark

Hi All I managed to put some of your questions to one of the ARCo engineers,so here goes with what I understood his reply to be.
The rebuild by ARCo was required as the mag rivets (mentioned by Fluffy) were looseing there heads at an unacceptable rate.The rivets were replaced shape for shape (round head for round head and so on) at OFMCs request. Rivets being supplied by OFMC. The reason for the unusual rivet pattern is, as I understand.
MH434 started down the production line as a MK V. came out the other end as A MK IX.
I hope this helps U All as much as I hope that some one else can confirm this.

The doG is trying “Honest”

Rivets do correspond to AN/MS/NAS in sizing, with diameter in 1/32 and length in 1/16 inch.
So SP80-405 would be 1/8″ dia 5/16″ long.
I’ve got a fair stock of AGS rivets SP70/71/78/80, AS 2200 series plus Avdel and MBC. It’s not that scarce.

Thanks for the info.

By a legende i meant that they are rarely used in modern aerospace, at least not where i have been bashing rivets (which is quite a few places, although i have limited expirence with British general aviation aircraft).

Too true Tom. 😀

TB’s Desert Spit, JG891, was flying despite the blustery condition but I’ll post those later.

MH434 was up on jacks and there was no one around, not even a security guard, to ask if I could cross the barrier so I have only got one side covered. PM me an address and I will burn what I got onto a disc and in the post to you.

Brian

I like a photographer who respects a good barrier 😉

I’m only joking of cause — Imagine getting banned from Duxford!

I’m looking forward to seeing pictures of Tom’s model, complete with correct rivet pattern 🙂

Sorry some of your info is wrong from frame 11 fwd the countersunk rivets are AS2229 90 degree not SP71 100degree rivets and the intercostals are AS2230 120 degree rivets and the skin is dimpled. However if you want to be authentic then you require mag rivets.

Hi Paul , if you are using 90 degree rivets in a 20 swg skin (fr8 to fr12) then surely there is going to be no material left for the rivet head to sit on !!. I would agree that the skin is dimpled on the intercostals, but depending on MK then the dia varies, IE 3/32 & 1/8. After consideration i would suggest that MH434 has or should have 3/32 dia rivs in the intercostals.
Have had a few dilemas on rivs on the MK1 we are doing , but seems that it is simalar to the PRXI that we did last year. Mag rivs !!!!! ok in the short term!!!!
You are right “a little knowledge is dangerous”
Steve

Hi Tom, as MH434 is based on a late MKV airframe the riveting pattern is different to that of a MK IX. All rivets fwd of fr11 above the fillet fairing line will csk, SP 71,s, below fillet fairing i think they will be snaphead SP 80,s. Aft of fr11 all rivets will be mush-head SP 85,s except for the horizontal intercostals between frames which will be either 3/32 or 1/8 csk SP 71,s. Fr19 is also flush riveted.
If you really want to do a MK IX then all the rivets are flush (csk SP 71,s) except for the ones below the fillet fairing line which are SP 80 snapheads.
Hope this helps you a bit tom.

Steve

Sorry some of your info is wrong from frame 8 to 5 fwd the countersunk rivets are AS2229 90 degree not SP71 100degree rivets and the intercostals are AS2230 120 degree rivets and the skin is dimpled. However if you want to be authentic then you require mag rivets.

I forgot British standard fasteners…They are measured in furlongs or something right?

Never hit a SP rivet in my life (they are almost just a legend now 🙂 )

SP80 = AN430AD i think (the round head).

Rivets do correspond to AN/MS/NAS in sizing, with diameter in 1/32 and length in 1/16 inch.
So SP80-405 would be 1/8″ dia 5/16″ long.
I’ve got a fair stock of AGS rivets SP70/71/78/80, AS 2200 series plus Avdel and MBC. It’s not that scarce.

That engine does look rather nice

Hi Brian,

To bad you couldn’t get the other side…there had to be security agents, because when I look at this picture the tailwheel and the other retracts are stolen. 😉

I will send you a PM.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

Tom

I’m sure Brian is at the best place you can be on a day like this. 😀

Too true Tom. 😀

TB’s Desert Spit, JG891, was flying despite the blustery condition but I’ll post those later.

MH434 was up on jacks and there was no one around, not even a security guard, to ask if I could cross the barrier so I have only got one side covered. PM me an address and I will burn what I got onto a disc and in the post to you.

Brian

Interesting question…did MH434 had different rivets over the years???
Who got the answer for this one.

Happy to help, Tom. MH434 was, I understand only rebuilt on that occasion to any major degree. Certainly there were repairs before that, including after a belly landing, and maybe the unusual rivets are the result of damage in military service or early civilian life, but I don’t think so from the location of them.

That’s as far as I can take it as I don’t count rivets, usually… 😀

Hi James,

Interesting question…did MH434 had different rivets over the years???
Who got the answer for this one.

I love MH434 in the version he is now…when I want to fly competition then it would be the best to build it the way he is at the moment.
But maybe one day i would like to build a version of it in Belgium trainer colors…silver with yellow bands around the fuselage and wings.
Difference with this one also is that it was LF version, with clipped wings…not sure if that is good when you fly it remote controlled…nevertheless I could give it a chance one day…

Thanks for the information…

Regards,
Tom

Which MH434 are you building? 😉 G-ASJV was rebuilt by ARC in the early 1990s (IIRC) at Duxford. How much and what was replaced I don’t know, nor if an original rivet pattern was replicated, but a good deal of work was undertaken on a very tired airframe. You’d be tired too, if you think about the hours of aeros she’d put in over the previous 50 years…

@ Mike Curril: No problem for the question, very good question now I have the answer too and a nice picture of it. 😉

@ mackerel: It’s not that I want to make a MK9, I want to make MH434…but on the other hand I think when I make a MK9 then i have more potentional on paintschemes…anyway decission is made it will be MH434…reason why I’ve chosen this one too is because it was in service in the Belgium airforce…under the nr. SM41, also love that paintscheme.

The book you’re talking about, I have that one…very nice book with alot of pictures!!!
But indeed no raised rivets on this plane.

So the rivet in my scale would be around 1mm…hmm hard to make I supose…
Maybe i need to do this with glue…or with Lithoplate and kind of a mold to make them…

Are there on the market 1mm rivets??
Don’t have experience with this.

I’m sure Brian is at the best place you can be on a day like this. 😀

Regards,
Tom