Midland Aircraft Recovery Group Mid 1980's old Hands?

No, I was waiting for them to go back to Ray!

Hi Elliott,
I honestly can’t remember, it was so long ago. I made photographic prints from all the negatives and I’m pretty sure I’ve since scanned them all, so they’re in an easily accessible format. I also indexed them and started adding drawings on their bills of material to the index as well, although that’s not complete. It would make sense to combine the index with the information from the parts list. I’m pretty sure AW re-used minor parts like brackets from earlier designs, so the Whitley probably contains small AW-made parts from earlier AW aircraft. That could be confirmed by cross-referencing parts lists. I assumed you have a copy of the drawings by now.

Have you returned Ray William’s Whitley drawings yet Mark?

Powerandpassion – by all means send me a PM. I’m very unlikely to swap anything from J9590, because I’ve built a collection relevant to this area and it doesn’t have much pre WW2. Having said that, I’ve just started a thread “Who’s interested in having parts refurbished or made?” to see whether a small engineering company I run should do some work in the historic aviation field. Might you be interested in having reproduction parts made?

scotavia – thanks for the update. I’m sorry to hear Ken is no longer with us – he was quite a character and always enthusiastic about vintage projects. We used to have a Bessonneau hangar stored there, as well as various aircraft parts. That is now re-erected on a former WW1 airfield in Italy and houses flying WW1 aircraft, so it went to a good home. Hopefully before much longer we’ll have our own equivalent of Charity Farm to open the collection to the public. We could keep the plastic pests at bay.

Mark, Ken Broomfield of Charity farm Baxterley died in May 2014,his family have continued with the caravan storage and the airstrip is in use but needs caution due to varying grass heights ,hedges and trees on approach. The jackaroo has been sold and a Moth also moved on, less vintage there now,increasingly ultra lights and expensive modern plastic flying devices.

“I think we found 2 pieces of steel structure from J9590, plus the odd bracket. The most recognisable part is the prop boss, with the slots for the Hucks starter. Talking of rusty bits of long-extinct aeroplanes, I think we still have a box of the mortal remains of an Armstrong Whitworth Atlas. Again, not enough to form a proper project, but useful clues on how a specific aeroplane was built. It’s possible to glean quite a lot of information from contemporary patents and journals of course, but scraps of structure are invaluable.”

Mark,
Couldn’t tempt you with something for some of these bits….:eagerness:worth sending you a PM?

I had some Wellington parts stored at a farm strip near Atherstone (North Warks), which was owned by a Ken. If that’s the one then I didn’t know he had died – do you know when that was? I moved the last of my parts from there a few years ago, so no worries on that score, but thanks for the heads-up.

Elliott – I’ll email you and we’ll see what we can do.

Just wondering Mark if you were connected with the Wellington parts stored in the long grass on the edge of afield at a farm strip near Coventry ? The strip owner used to fly a Jackaroo from the strip and I used to visit to fly in a friends vintage aircraft. Since the sad death of Ken I have a feeling that the family may not be as accomodating and hope your parts are safe.

That sounds like a good idea Mark.

Thanks for the update Elliott. That’s good news. Do you have the means to produce any drawings? I may be able to help you there if not. I’ve produced a 3D CAD model of the the FN.5 turret and front cupola for the Wellington from the original parts, which makes it much easier to strip and reassemble. A similar model of the Whitley nose would be invaluable for both our projects.

Just a correction for you there Mark, we have almost all of the front fuselage, albeit in kit form.

Consul: yes, we have the remains of two Oxfords, both found in Canada. They are Mk I AT605 and Mk V EB518. Both have an intact centre section – i.e. front and rear spars with ribs, firewalls, undercarriages etc – about 18 feet span. Some of the wood can be saved, but the structures need a very thorough rebuild. EB518 is with Mike Eastman and AT605 is still here. Both projects have an almost complete set of metal parts. The wooden parts are fairly straightforward to make, but of course a lot of volunteer man-hours will be essential. We also have a turret cupola, additional cockpit parts and a couple of spare firewalls etc.

Re the Whitley, we make every effort not to compete with “The Whitley Project” and co-operate where possible. The two projects do exchange parts from time to time. We’re not aiming to build a Whitley – just a nose section to display in the Midlands, where all the Whitleys were built. I think we have almost as much as “The Whitley Project” and possibly have more of the nose, with the exception of the front turret.

I should probably explain that our aim in collecting such an eclectic mix of projects is to represent the main aircraft types that flew from the Midlands during the world wars. The aircraft are worth preserving in their own right, but we’re really trying to tell the human story of how they were used in this area. Quick summary:
Wellington Z1206 – represents several Bomber Command OTUs in Warwickshire and Worcestershire
Whitley – 24 OTU (Honeybourne/ Long Marston)
Oxford AT605 – 18 (Pilots) Advanced Flying Unit (Church Lawford/ Snitterfield)
Hurricane – 605 Squadron, 63 OTU (Honiley), 308 Squadron and others
Harvard KF650 – 2 FTS (Church Lawford)
Avro 504J??? – various WW1 units at Castle Bromwich and Lilbourne

Although we haven’t done much restoration work on the Wellington and Oxford, we have done a lot of research into their units – 142 Squadron and 36 Service Flying Training School respectively. Little has been published on either and we’re trying to fill the gap in the historical record by collecting photos, anecdotes, copies of log books etc. This has been reasonably successful and should result in both projects being displayed with the photos and stories of the individual men who flew in them. We’re also in the process of identifying the thousands of aircrew who trained at our local OTUs and other units, and putting their mini biographies on-line. The wider public don’t appreciate the horrendous casualty rate these men faced and we want to tell that story.

Delighted to hear there is no duplication of effort as I’m in awe of the work being undertaken to create the front end of a Stirling and look forward to seeing every update. Can’t wait to see frames being erected!
What happened to the ‘Stirling wing’ at Orfordness, the story suddenly went quiet possibly for good reason?
I’d love to visit but don’t find myself over that side of the country very often, maybe soon..
Keep up the good work.

It is being investigated. We are waiting to see the outcome, but on first sight of the structural pictures it looks more Lancaster than Stirling.

Delighted to hear there is no duplication of effort as I’m in awe of the work being undertaken to create the front end of a Stirling and look forward to seeing every update. Can’t wait to see frames being erected!
What happened to the ‘Stirling wing’ at Orfordness, the story suddenly went quiet possibly for good reason?
I’d love to visit but don’t find myself over that side of the country very often, maybe soon..
Keep up the good work.

“almost as silly as two projects creating the front end of a Stirling”

Hi NeilH,

While it may seem that way from the outside, there is no duplication of efforts. Both have co-operated over the years, and there are more than enough parts and resources to go around. Its not like we each have half of a bank note 😉 useless without the other…..

The Stirling Aircraft Project based in Cambridgeshire, is a registered charity, and has been going for ~20 years. It is regularly staffed twice per week by 3-4 volunteers, where some serious engineering efforts have been undertaken to restore and reproduce a forward fuselage and all of its detailed componentry. You are more than welcome to visit our workshop to view progress.

Martin, the collector in the south west of England has made some lovely displays, and has collected some nice original parts of Stirling remains.

Geographically, even a long drive between locations is enough to prevent working on the same project.

No it is, although it would be great if both groups would unite and rebuild a full Whitley airframe. Yes yes I know.:rolleyes:
Cheers
Cees

Shame that two groups are trying to do the same, especially when parts are so rare. Haven’t heard anything about the Whitley Project lately , I assume it is still going on?
There is no sense in two projects, almost as silly as two projects creating the front end of a Stirling; time to agree that one project creates the middle Section to join onto the Stirling Projects front end. After all these projects are about filling gaps as a lasting memorial to those who flew and died in them rather than personnel who, isn’t it?

Thanks for the update Mark :eagerness:

No it is, although it would be great if both groups would unite and rebuild a full Whitley airframe. Yes yes I know.:rolleyes:
Cheers
Cees

Never realised you had so much Whitley, is this the same Whitley project that Eliot Smock is involved in?

It certainly would be good for those significant pieces if Wellington and Whitley to be put on public display – you have done a great job gathering that incredible collection.

IIRC, at one time didn’t you have the remains of a couple of Oxfords from Canada? Presumably these only comprise some of the metal components? The wooden elements (which constitute a significant % of each airframe) of a couple of Oxfords I came across stored in Canada had long returned to nature! Any updates on their status please?