Mig 17 will the CAA let it fly

While it is true to say that the South African CAA have a more positive view to the maintenace side of operations and there catergorizing of the Lightning as ‘design stable’ to compare the whole situation directly to the one in the UK is a little unfair. If South Africa was as heavily populated as the UK then the Lightnings would not be allowed to fly there either.

I think we will see the Mig-17 fly in this country and I for one look forward to seeing it fly!

Originally posted by shorts
I think the platting fog anoloy springs to mind. If the CAA are reluctant to authorise the lightnings and the bucc to fly what chance does the MIG have. It will probably end up going some where esle that appreciates historic aviation and the british scene will yet again fall foul of the CAA.
Why can South Africa fly our historic aircarft with no problems but in the UK the dreaded CAA raise its ugly head. Remember we are still waiting not only on heritage money to get XH558 into the air but also CAA approval not only for the flying permit but also approval of the workshops at Buntingthorpe to do the aessemlby it would seem that the only people who apprciate our heritage are outside the UK. Remember the last Sunderland flew to Kermit Weeks museum and has never flown again what a waste, it was a wonderful sight on Windermere but it left a;sas never never to grace the skies again.

Shorts

CAA do seem far too restrictive in what they allow to fly but i do think the Mig17 has a chance i never thought we would have a Seavixen on the curcuit but we have,I can’t ever see a Lightning getting approval to fly in UK though and theres so many stumbling blocks with the Buccaneeer too,The Sunderland situation is criminal i remember her flying at Biggin Hill i find it pathatic that the only flyable airframe has been grounded in USA,But the same happened with Mossie with Kermit Weeks too.

I think the platting fog anoloy springs to mind. If the CAA are reluctant to authorise the lightnings and the bucc to fly what chance does the MIG have. It will probably end up going some where esle that appreciates historic aviation and the british scene will yet again fall foul of the CAA.
Why can South Africa fly our historic aircarft with no problems but in the UK the dreaded CAA raise its ugly head. Remember we are still waiting not only on heritage money to get XH558 into the air but also CAA approval not only for the flying permit but also approval of the workshops at Buntingthorpe to do the aessemlby it would seem that the only people who apprciate our heritage are outside the UK. Remember the last Sunderland flew to Kermit Weeks museum and has never flown again what a waste, it was a wonderful sight on Windermere but it left a;sas never never to grace the skies again.

Shorts

Mark’s article is on the OFMC website.

I flew the OFMC MiG 15 for about 6 sorties. In fact I think I flew its last ever sortie from France back to the UK prior to it going to South America.

IT WAS A GREAT AEROPLANE TO FLY!

Definitely a labour intensive machine to operate due to its total loss air system with no onboard/inflight replenishment available. And of course it had a relatively high approach speed with no anti-skid or brake chute fitted. Don’t forget the ‘mini dutch roll’ tendency on the approach either!

Mark Linney wrote an excellent article on flying it if someone can lay their hands on it?

I wish them well with their efforts to get the MiG 17 airborne.

T

BCAR ‘conditions’ for mig 17, far less strigent than for a lightning,

Although ‘complex’ due to reheat, fundemantal design still based on mig 15, which is no wear near as complicated or dangerous to operate as a lightning, therefore DA backup from Mikoyan-Gurevich is not imperrative, since a suitable operator, capable of maintaining the mig 17 in conjuction with a CAA agreed BCAR approved organisation in the UK is acceptable.

The BCAR approved organisations thus far nominated to the CAA for lightning operations, not good enough, Hence the need for Bae, who aren’t interested.

Roll on MIg 17!! It will be nice to see something interesting on the circuits.

mjr

Hi All

OOP’s the lightning hijacks another thred 😀

But i do hope the Mig-17 fly’s soon i do like the Mig-15 and 17 and it will be nice to see a 17 flying real soon

Scott C

Originally posted by Steve Bond
I have to say I think it is a bit of a shame that this post about the MiG.17 has turned into yet another one about Lightnings.

Agree to a point, but there are associated relevances.

A CAA permit for the -17 would, I presumme, be a first in the UK for a civilian ex-mil a/c with reheat, so I can see people clutching at straws as regards the ‘Frightning’.

Interestingly, a main stumbling block with the Lightning, as has been stated, is DA, so, pressumably the CAA require DA backup from Mikoyan-Gurevich….if it’s regarded as ‘complex’ because of the re-heat..??

Is that likely……?

Anyway, here’s hoping the -17 does fly, as I’d love to see one in the air again, having been fortunate to have seen a display at El Toro some years ago by the all red MIG-17 (owned by Bill Resseman…??)

‘I have to say I think it is a bit of a shame that this post about the MiG.17 has turned into yet another one about Lightnings.

At the risk of making myself unpopular again, I really believe it is time we all recognised that despite how much we might wish it, we will not see a Lightning flying in UK skies.’

lightning does have an irritating habit of stealing the limelight!.And Steve, i think sadly, you are right, lightnig flying is a very very faint light. Anyway it will be very nice to see a mig17 fly grace uk airspace even if its adversary wont b.

mjr

lightning

Firstly,
a distinction needs to be made here, between C of A and a permit to fly. Many mentions of ‘CofA’. A general C of A would NOT be issued to ex millitary types such as the lightning on the Uk register or any other ex millitary type over the weight of 2.7 tons. A ‘permit’ to fly is issued under a ‘CAP 632’, unless the millitary type is a civil derivative, in which case a ‘C of A’ can be issued. Any permit will only be issued where the aircraft meets all BCAR conditions and additional conditions set out in the permit, Along with a UK minimum operational and technical frame work
(which for a lightning, without design backing, you aint gonna meet in a million years!).

A lightning would be victim to many ‘conditions’ inherantly cost prohibitive, unless you had major design authority backing from Bae Systems, or possibly marshalls. The lightnings’ complexity (and ultimately the CAA alone are responsible for classifying complexity) type safety records, etc as many have pointed out, dont help. Compared to ANY other aircraft, including modern, the lightning is seriously specialist and fickle, requires impeccable servicing and specialist operation. The attrition rate alone is testiment.

Dont get me wrong, Never say never,I hope it flies again, I’m sure it would be possible to get a permit for the lightning, but it would take massive, massive investment from all concerned, most importantly agreement from D authority, which so far and unsurprisingly has not been forthcoming. (And we can thank in no small part the world wide proliferation of US litigeous culture), Put yourself in BAe’s position, if in doubt would you back it??

Since the application is still ‘active’ on CAA database, details will not be divulged, but I suspect the requirement for such colossal investment to meet all critera, was the main dampner for all parties concerned, including CAA and Design Authority. Until you get that, its a dead duck!

Similar story for the Shack, and unfortunately, Pelican 16 incident will only have strengthened the design authority and CAA position.

a hopefull MJR
🙂

I have to say I think it is a bit of a shame that this post about the MiG.17 has turned into yet another one about Lightnings.

At the risk of making myself unpopular again, I really believe it is time we all recognised that despite how much we might wish it, we will not see a Lightning flying in UK skies.

lightning

Firstly,

Why would he want to? He’s a businessman, if their is no money involved, he will not be interested

Maybe not, but I bet its a great Tax write off.

I can’t believe Thunder City makes a profit, even with all the test pilot activity.

Originally posted by scott c
Hi Glen

I think Mr Beachy-Head could cover the fuel quite easy

Scott C

Why would he want to? He’s a businessman, if their is no money involved, he will not be interested.

Hi Glen

I think Mr Beachy-Head could cover the fuel quite easy

Scott C

That may well be the case but whatever the implications and rulings on this I think we can safely say that a SA Lightning flying in the UK is a bit of a dead duck as no-one would be able to afford ferry it uphill all the way from Cape Town anyway????????????

Glen,

I have no evidence to back this up but I was under the impression that the CAA would not allow these aircraft to fly in the UK, due to them being on a SA-CAA permit to fly rather than a genral C of A. I believe the aircraft would need permission in writting from the CAA.

Yeah but the sooner the Bucc fly’s the better as plenty of people are coming out with all sorts of daft storys about it.

Hi Glen

The lightnings were put on the south african register before they left for cape town and the CAA still wouldnt let them fly in the uk even just for a ferry flight so i cant see them letting them fly here now even if they did bring one back.

And we all know that the bucc is going to fly again soon so it’s know big secret.

Scott C