Missile collection

Here is an update from the original post. Glenn had the SA-11 naval equivelent…. here is the more modern SA-17 based version with the shorter wider wings:

Would be interesting to know the cost of the tactical missiles like SS-21, Iskander and SS-23. A cost above $10 mil makes it very costly for conventional use.

I don’t know the cost of either weapon system but with CEPs of less than 20m against a target that can be 150km behind a frontline it is an all weather conventional weapon that could take on many battlefield targets very well without risking any pilots and having a very good chance of getting through most SAM defences. The fact that it manouvers in the terminal phase makes it a difficult target to hit. (Unupgraded Patriots performed very poorly against non manouvering Scuds in DS. Now of course the Patriots have been upgraded but how many countries have Patriots defending their interests 24/7?)

Compared to the cost of an airstrike to hit a target even if they cost $20 million they would be cheap… and they certainly don’t cost that much.

Ahh okay. It looked like you’d dredged back into the archives and unnecessarily brought something back just to have a crack at me!.

If it was just a joke thats fine!. Perhaps the use of emoticons might have helped put what you said into context?. Just a hint but emotion is hard to interpret on here at times.

come on, one cannot joke now?

Nuke,

Get a life mate!.

1. Dirty communists???. Not said anything at all about personal cleanliness or political persuasions.

2. Reliability. I Made no reference whatsoever to the reliability of early Russian missiles. I know I made no such reference because the reliability of early British and American guided missiles were no great shakes either.

3. Relevence?. How is it relevent whether RN had SSM’s in 71 or not?. If we say that the RN had no SSM, apart from surface-mode Sea Slug, back then does it suddenly mean that those POL tanks were hit by precision guided weapons?. No it doesnt.

The point of this was discussing, some 4 months ago!, the usefulness of a conventional active radar homing antiship missile in the shore attack role. It does not, as I clearly stated, denigrate the crews performance in getting to a position where they could lob dumb missiles in on shore installations. Neither does it denigrate the performance of the missile in its intended antiship function which, at that time, was pretty good by all accounts.

Quote,

“I knew that Sameer was mentioning that ‘capability’ of Brahmos with a view to the action from 1971. Unfortunately what isnt well known, or readilly accepted by some, is that the ‘severe blow’ struck ashore by those OSA-class boats was largely pure dumb luck!

This is mainly because the targetting system for the P-15 missiles was basic in the extreme. The procedure to fire those missiles was to take a series of radar fixes, on the search set, on a clear contact, manually set a range-gate into the missile with a seeker activation time and keep the boat steady on bearing to the target for long enough to fire the weapon. The system back then had no facility to ‘lock-on’ to a target prior to launch.

Now the MR-331 Rangout search radar fitted to those OSA’s was designed to pick out sea contacts against an open background inside of about a 40nm range. It was totally incapable of picking out targets amidst land clutter with any definition. So, what happened could have been one of two possibilities:

a) that the Osa crews either fired on visual bearing to the POL tanks and the missiles either went through seeker activation and hit the first thing that came into their field of view or, just as likely, the missiles never actually locked-up on anything and just flew straight into the tanks on account of their preset altimeter; or

b) that they got a broad aspect radar contact ashore, fired on it, and the missiles managed to fly into something vital that just happened to be in their seeker FoV on activation.

Either way it was not the precision land-attack that many, particularly Indians, like to believe. I’m not explaining this to denigrate the achievements of the IN’s missile boat squadrons back then, as they certainly did an effective job in their more conventional anti-shipping tasks during those missions, but to highlight the limitations of active-radar homing AShM’s in land attack missions in general!.
__________________
Regards,”

Ok, it’s clear now that the dirty communists couldn’t do anithing right for UK standards. One could wonders only IF and when their systems functions.
but in 1971 the RN what kind of SSMs got? Sea Slug?mh….

6. Iskander-S

Iskander-E, actually. The Russians have an “interim” domestic version called Iskander-M that’s in service, while they wait for the full standard, uber-capable “Tender” system, which is the true replacement for the Oka (SS-23).

Either way it was not the precision land-attack that many, particularly Indians, like to believe. I’m not explaining this to denigrate the achievements of the IN’s missile boat squadrons back then, as they certainly did an effective job in their more conventional anti-shipping tasks during those missions, but to highlight the limitations of active-radar homing AShM’s in land attack missions!.

agree jonesy…

the striking of the oil tanks was sheer luck….

for more reading,

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/History/1971War/Banerjee.html

Hi Nirav,

I knew that Sameer was mentioning that ‘capability’ of Brahmos with a view to the action from 1971. Unfortunately what isnt well known, or readilly accepted by some, is that the ‘severe blow’ struck ashore by those OSA-class boats was largely pure dumb luck!

This is mainly because the targetting system for the P-15 missiles was basic in the extreme. The procedure to fire those missiles was to take a series of radar fixes, on the search set, on a clear contact, manually set a range-gate into the missile with a seeker activation time and keep the boat steady on bearing to the target for long enough to fire the weapon. The system back then had no facility to ‘lock-on’ to a target prior to launch.

Now the MR-331 Rangout search radar fitted to those OSA’s was designed to pick out sea contacts against an open background inside of about a 40nm range. It was totally incapable of picking out targets amidst land clutter with any definition. So, what happened could have been one of two possibilities:

a) that the Osa crews either fired on visual bearing to the POL tanks and the missiles either went through seeker activation and hit the first thing that came into their field of view or, just as likely, the missiles never actually locked-up on anything and just flew straight into the tanks on account of their preset altimeter; or

b) that they got a broad aspect radar contact ashore, fired on it, and the missiles managed to fly into something vital that just happened to be in their seeker FoV on activation.

Either way it was not the precision land-attack that many, particularly Indians, like to believe. I’m not explaining this to denigrate the achievements of the IN’s missile boat squadrons back then, as they certainly did an effective job in their more conventional anti-shipping tasks during those missions, but to highlight the limitations of active-radar homing AShM’s in land attack missions in general!.

The current Bhramos missile is optimized and designed for sea targets, I believe that u can launch it towards a harbour and the missile will hit things that are big and metalic.

Marvellous. The worlds first anti-crane missile!. How much does a Brahmos round cost again!? :rolleyes:

hello jonesy,

what sameer has said in his post might sound crude…
but this thing was exactly used to great effect by the Indian Navy during the 1971 war with pak….

the OSA class missile boats had let loose a few missiles which struck the shore based oil tanks in karachi…. this action had dealt a severe blow to the pakistani war effort back then….

well i am not suggesting that such tactics should be used again…
just trying to point out what sameer might have hinted… 🙂

The current Bhramos missile is optimized and designed for sea targets, I believe that u can launch it towards a harbour and the missile will hit things that are big and metalic.

Marvellous. The worlds first anti-crane missile!. How much does a Brahmos round cost again!? :rolleyes:

Very funny!

The current Bhramos missile is optimized and designed for sea targets, I believe that u can launch it towards a harbour and the missile will hit things that are big and metalic.

Marvellous. The worlds first anti-crane missile!. How much does a Brahmos round cost again!? :rolleyes:

The current Bhramos missile is optimized and designed for sea targets, I believe that u can launch it towards a harbour and the missile will hit things that are big and metalic.

good thread GDL. please post more if you have it.

Would be interesting to know the cost of the tactical missiles like SS-21, Iskander and SS-23. A cost above $10 mil makes it very costly for conventional use.

It is high speed.

yup, mach 3 … :diablo:

But what is the trajectory?

hi-lo trajectory for 290 KMs range…

And how well is it in destroying ground targets?

it is an anti-ship missile…. wasn’t designed to attack ground targets….
BTW, work on a LACM variant is going on….. :diablo:

And compared to the US cruise missile… ?

what is the need to compare it to a U.S cruise missile ? :rolleyes:

Which plane can carry that version?

Su-30mki :diablo:

I checked the Brahmos homepage. Indeed flashy. How important is that supersonic cruise missile part? It is high speed. OK. But what is the trajectory? And how well is it in destroying ground targets? And compared to the US cruise missile… What are the advantages? And is there a pic of the Air launched version? Which plane can carry that version? Thanks.

HEY GDL

THNX MAN THOSE WERE REALLY NICE PICTURES.. COULD U GIVE ME SOME DETAILS

ON RUSSIAN CRUISE MISSILE (Kh-65S cruise missile).. AND YES ANY GOOD COMPARISON BETWEN THE RUSSIAN CRUISE MISSILE & AND THE AMERICAN ONE WOULD BE CERTAINLY WELCOME

THANX

ANOTHER INDO RUSSIAN CRUISE MISSILE

COURTESY

BHARAT RAKSHAK

DO CHECK OUT THIS FABULOUS SITE

http://www.brahmos.com/