Mk 22 Spitfire Colours

Which you should find as “Eau-de-Nil” in the Colourcoats range. When I was a kid in the 50s/60s a glossy variant used to be available from Humbrol with a very low number, but has long gone. The colour was widely used for interior decoration at the time (and previously). I gather it was also used for the interior of various military vehicles, such as signal bodies, as it was considered a restful colour for the eyes.

colour of spitfire cockpit

A friend of mine who lives in Malta is a keen model maker and volunteers at the Malta Aviation Musuem. Great little place if anybody is ever there, I help him research for his model building projects from time to time, usually hitting the books for images etc.

Latest on the bench is the Airfix MK 22/24 1/72 build – the question which I just know that at least a thousand forum members will know the answer to is should the cockpit interier be “cockpit green” and should the wheel wells be silver ?

and, just because I like to tell people…. as a “thanks” for helping with some pictures etc, when I was over in July they let me sit in their Mk IX….. I just like to mention that. A lot….:D;):rolleyes:

i worked for the r.a.f. as a surface finisher (paint sprayer) and painted many types of aircraft including the battle britain flight and the colour of the cockpit is ODENEAL hope this will be of help to you and others

What was the date of this MOD which stopped the fueslage skins being painted?
MJ730 was produced in late 1943 and its fuselage skins were painted green.

Jay

One of the things I am certain of – and Edgar may be surprised at this – is that the inside faces of the fuselage skins were never painted but the frames and intercostals were painted silver. .

Not too surprised; there was a modification, introduced in September 1943 “To delete painting of fuselage interior,” and someone had just pencilled in “IX” into the ledger.

Edgar – re AR213 – Westland were well known to adore Grey Green (or at least some variation of it) and must have stocked huge amounts of it as they painted everything that was not bolted down with it. I have seen the insides of Westland built Seafire XV outer wing sections – all that colour…. this practise was certainly in contrast to that of CBAF.

The Seafire XV might have come inside the drawing change, which went from silver to green; it’s yet another on the list of “things to check on.” As AR213 was Westland’s second airframe, there remains the suspicion that it, like the first “Mk.IIs” built by Castle Bromwich, actually came from a kit of parts supplied by Supermarine, not that it should make any difference to the colour.
A few years ago, the man who produced James May’s “Airfix Spitfire,” told me that former groundcrew had told him how they sometimes had to mix their own from camouflage dark green, plus Sky.

One of the things I am certain of – and Edgar may be surprised at this – is that the inside faces of the fuselage skins were never painted but the frames QUOTE]

A friend of mine has the rear fuselage skins from MJ730 and all are painted grey/ green internaly.

Jay

It’s understandable that an aircraft intended for maritime use would have more attention paid to anti-corrosion treatment.

Westland built aircraft

Edgar – re AR213 – Westland were well known to adore Grey Green (or at least some variation of it) and must have stocked huge amounts of it as they painted everything that was not bolted down with it. I have seen the insides of Westland built Seafire XV outer wing sections – all that colour…. this practise was certainly in contrast to that of CBAF.

When Duxford restored their Swordfish the interior colour used was very similar to Humbrol 90 as mentioned by Edgar. The restoration team at Duxford confirmed to me that this colouration was based upon what was there prior to restoration so perhaps the ubiquitous aircraft grey-green interior is not quite as ubiquitous as many think.

Part of the problem here is we are talking about three Spitfire production eras, early (mk. 1s both pre-war and early war), then the main wartime production (where my physical evidence is derived from) and the subject of the thread, the late production Mk.22/24. I don’t think there is likely to be a definitive answer but I am certainly going to take another look at the CBAF Spitfire IX airframe and compare to colour chips. One of the things I am certain of – and Edgar may be surprised at this – is that the inside faces of the fuselage skins were never painted but the frames and intercostals were painted silver. The wheel bays on this airframe (PT879 by the way) were also silver as far as I can determine.

I know its personal preference, but I do late Spitfires with silver undercarriage componants, bays, and inside the doors.
This us mainly becaus ethe 24 at Hendo is like that, but unsure if it’s been restored that way.

I use 78 for cockpits, but re shade it with light grey to achieve the different tones.
I have a fresh piece of Albermarle (different aircraft I know) and the interior green matches 78 very closely.

Hi Edgar;

Yes! It would be a great opportunity to have a close look at the IWM airframe. I’ve read your theory about Humbrol 90 before, and it all makes perfect sense to me. Maybe it’s time to lobby Hornby to re-formulate No.90? However, would they know what the old formula is? I’ve never been that happy with No.78, except maybe for the later colours (if indeed that’s even correct). I have a fair few very old Humbrol paints around, but unfortunately, the old No.90 is not one of them. Does anyone have this colour in their stash?

Regards;
Steve

When AR213 had its first-ever complete rebuild, I was given access to some of the fuselage panels, which had been removed, and replaced. Cleaning off years of dirty “weathering” revealed a green which exactly matched a Humbrol colour chip, no.90 “Beige green,” not the always-quoted 78.
Further investigation showed that, when fleetingly owned by Palitoy, Airfix’s 1/24 Spitfire I was issued, with instructions to paint the cockpit interior in 90. Unfortunately (like most of the modelling fraternity, since Airfix never actually bothered to indicate what 90 was for,) when Hornby took over the company, they thought that 90 was supposed to be Sky, and altered the formula to match it.
When PSL published their book, on the Airfix kit, the authors included a recommendation to use 1 Eau-de-Nil plus a “slight touch” (how much is that?) of 38 Lime, which came nowhere near 78.
It would be wonderful, now that the IWM’s airframes are down from their “eyrie,” and stored at Duxford, if someone could gain access to the Spitfire, and check it out, since the story is that it was this airframe that Messrs Cross and Scarborough used, as it had just been brought down for cleaning, at just the right time.
As an extra point to ponder, in a pair of books, on cockpit interiors, by Hiroshi Seo, published in 1980, there’s a photo of the Science Museum’s S6B cockpit, and it, too, is remarkably close to Humbrol’s original 90.

Hi Edgar, Thanks for the response – presume you mean PK624 with TFC? That aircraft, being a gate guardian, has been re-painted a number of times since manuafacture so its possible the green was not original…. but of course it may have been!

I wonder if any period photos clearly show green wheel wells? Where is M12 when you need him? Under canvas….

Any idea where the notion of the ‘paler green used on Spitfires’ comes from – this is something discussed in modelling circles presumably? Thanks again.

Interesting subject – Edgar, have you seen much evidence of the use of Grey Green for gear wells on the Mk.22? Its not a variant I have looked in to in much detail. I do have access to an unrestored Mk.IX airframe and that has some interesting colouration aspects to it which may be of interest.

Very little, but fairly compelling; a 22, which arrived back at Duxford, around 10 years ago, had green wells and door interiors. There’s also a drawing, in the RAF Museum’s library, which calls for interior areas to be painted green; a previous drawing, dating from the start of the war, had advocated silver. It’ll need a visit to the museum, to see if I can decipher a date; my copy is too indistinct.
The green continues to haunt the “seekers for truth,” since it might, initially at least, have been a completely different colour from the “Aircraft Grey Green,” in the B.S. range; in the National Archives, there’s a report, by a B.S. employee, on how they offered their services to the Air Ministry, but were turned down because they wanted to keep everything “in house.” Throughout the war, Farnborough seem to have been the unit which did all of the colour work, including mixing and issuing new colours.

Can’t say I was massively keen on the Airfix Mk.22 kit. Looks nice when finished, mind!

I think I mixed some dark green and white to make a kind of lighter colour. However, when I did the larger 1/48th kit, I used the Humbrol cockpit green. Doesn’t look too bad, if I say so myself…

Interesting subject – Edgar, have you seen much evidence of the use of Grey Green for gear wells on the Mk.22? Its not a variant I have looked in to in much detail. I do have access to an unrestored Mk.IX airframe and that has some interesting colouration aspects to it which may be of interest.

I am also curious about the suggested paler green used in Spitfires (not referring to the early bright green that seems to have been used by Supermarine on very early pre-war production examples)? The Mk.IX (castle Bromwich built) I refer to above clearly has a Grey Green painted cockpit.

Here’s my version of the same kit.:D

Green is correct; be sure to check for photos of your desired subject, since it was fairly common for the Griffon-powered 20-series aircraft to leave the cowlings unpainted and polished.

Thank you Tin Triangle, that is most helpful, and that is also a lovely build, the silver finish is very well done indeed.

Having built this very kit recently, I asked the same questions on another forum. I believe the answer was:

Cockpit and wheel wells were both the standard green used on Spitfire interiors (which was a paler green than the usual “Interior Green” on other wartime aircraft)

The original thread is here if you want it:
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=234922980&hl=%2Bspitfire+%2Bquestions

My result: