More Possible Training Changes! Move advice needed :)

maybe the smaller airlines, not the large ones.

Judging by Ian’s post, would it be fair to say that it would be worth making the effort to actually walk into each airlines HQ and hand in my CV in person to the chief pilot etc?

Wow, some very encouraging stories there guys! V jealous moondance!! I’m still very seriously considering just blitzing it now and getting everything done as fast as possible. I’m pretty sure I don’t want to carry on with the APP now due to several professional and personal factors.

Just worrying about how to get that job at the end of it now. Any tips guys?

Just out of interest, and don’t feel compelled to answer, where did you guys do your training and how long did it take you to get employment once you’d finished?

You are all going to really, really, hate me….but, I can honestly say that I have never spent a penny (or £ or $ or Yen) on flying. Two years on a UAS, BA sponsored course at Hamble (even got a LEA grant for the modest additional charges..food, accommodation etc). The BA deal was that we only paid back a (small) proportion of our training costs on employment with BA – that never happened (it was obvious from the beginning that BA had cocked up & there were unlikely to be jobs at the end of the course – to their eternal credit they did not cancel the course!), so no money ever asked for!

Out of Hamble for about two weeks before falling into that all important first job with Loganair. I realise how fantastically lucky I have been, but then, back in the mists of time, airlines actually paid for your licenses, rather than today when a ‘sponsored’ course seems to involve the student eventually paying for it themselves!

Skycruiser and I met when we were sat adjacent to each other on our CPL Nav course at PPSC. We have remained friends ever since. I am also pals with the guy who sat on the other side of me who flies A320/321 for First Choice (unfortunately my mate who sat behind us died in a plane crash in the late 90’s). I did all my ground school at PPSC and my flight training at Wycombe Air Centre at Booker over the course of several years while holding down a full time job. It took me 6 months to get a job with Aurigny having flown myself to Basle to try to try to catch the Chief Pilot out there as I knew he had a spare 30 minutes one particular evening. That initiative and dedication caused him to decide that I was the man for the job rather than those that waited for him to return to the UK.

Exams were done at PPSC in Bournemouth, flight training was at Professional Air Training ,also in Bournemouth.

It took me approx 1 year to get my first job, but only thanks to WYSI. I stayed 2 years there then applied to Cathay Pacific and got in. Once you have the first job under your belt people want to hear from you. The had bit is getting the first job.

Just out of interest, and don’t feel compelled to answer, where did you guys do your training and how long did it take you to get employment once you’d finished?

That’s a pretty accurate summary!

It really does strike me that an airline looks at a low hours pilot with the following order of priorities:
1) Does he/she have any contacts in the airline
2) Did he/she get a first time IR pass
3) How does he/she do in terms of CRM etc
4) Where did he/she train

So what I really need to do is meet a lot of guys who can slip me into a job 😉

Martin,

Glad to see that you are seeing the light regarding flight schools. I feel that schools like Oxford and Cabair hype up their business and lead you to believe that you will only get a job if you attend one of their schools. In my opinion they are wrong.

From my experience I did all my training of my own back at my local flight training school, I cost a lot less than the above mentioned.

When applying for jobs no one has asked “did I go to Oxford or Cabair etc”, they just want you to have a licence. Well, it’s done me no harm. I am only on my second job and I will be staying here for life. Also, WYSI did the same route as me and he is now also in a very good company flying a 4 engine jet.

My advice, get the licence not the school.

Good luck mate.

Ah now you see both of you have reinforced something I have believed since about a week after I took the APP selection. I really am starting to think it’s over hyped and that as long as I get my license quickly, from respected trainig providers the airlines aren’t going to bother too much where it came from.

With regards to the self funded type rating it’s something I’m very reluctant to do, although if I change over to modular I’ll have enough capital to get two (maybe 737 and A320!!!), but as you say a type rating and line experience are totally different things…..ah decisions decisions!!

I fully agree. The APP is something that Oxford are rather guilty of hyping up (eg by creating a selection process for it).

I feel that the airlines want you with a licence and not worried where it came from.

Good luck.

I’m as yet still undecided. My ground instructors are all telling me mixed things, some saying that the APP is the ONLY course to be on, others saying that there’s no difference between modular and integrated and very few airlines will mnod how I got my license. I’m not sure what’s marketing cr@p and what isn’t!! 🙂

Anyway, I have a review board meeting in the next few days with the Chief Ground Instructor, so fingers crossed I should have an answer for you all very soon 🙂

CTC is another hoop jumping excerise. You have to apply and get through the selection process. It’s no sure thing even with all the money in the world.

I currently have a friend of mine on the course.

Martin,

Re the ‘modular’ v ‘integrated’ approach, the airline I work for has a preference towards those who have completed an integrated course at a certain training provider. In saying that we still take on those who completed modular courses, but they appear to be in the minority.

One thing to bear in mind, is that you’ll need to keep current once your licence is issued. Several operators, including ourselves, require a certain amount of hours to have been flown in the previous 12 months, prior to being selected for interview etc.

Darren

A type rating with no hours as a line pilot won’t really help you. I feel it would be an expensive gamble. I have spoken to many a chief pilot regarding this matter and all of them said it was a waste of time unless you have hours on type.

Self funding your training is clearly a huge gamble, with a large expense and no certainty of employment. As I understand it, CTC select you for their scheme, rate you on a type (at your expense), and then ‘lease’ you to an airline for a period of time (the airline supplies the aircraft and line training) – when the period expires, the airline then decides whether to employ you permanently.
A rating without experience may well be pointless, but the CTC scheme seems to be an increasingly popular way into my airline.

[QUOTE=Moondance]However, with the money you save going Modular, get yourself off to CTC after you get your license and get a Type Rating (think I was told about £12,000 for the 757), and all of a sudden you become much more employable (and saved over £10,000!).

[QUOTE]

A type rating with no hours as a line pilot won’t really help you. I feel it would be an expensive gamble. I have spoken to many a chief pilot regarding this matter and all of them said it was a waste of time unless you have hours on type.

Martin, please bear in mind that I am nothing to do with recruitment or training, but I do get the impression that, for people like yourself, there is a slight (but only slight) preference for an Intergrated rather than Modular pilot.

However, with the money you save going Modular, get yourself off to CTC after you get your license and get a Type Rating (think I was told about £12,000 for the 757), and all of a sudden you become much more employable (and saved over £10,000!).

So, on balance, the ‘Modular’ route is probably worthwhile….but the one certain thing about aviation, is that NOTHING is certain….good luck!

From what i can gather from people in the know layoffs are going happen in early 2005 so if perhaps next Winter there will be alot of airlines taking on as from what ive seen it goes in 1 or 2 year cycles. Scheduled airlines would be al safer bet than charters for long term employment.

I can get you a job on A320s in Sibera if your despirate 😉