More vandalism….

done !!

I would seriously consider putting you on the ignore list. That would be quite an achievement for you as you would be the first person I put on that list in over ten years of posting on Key.

Regards,

kev35

Personal abuse edited out. This is not acceptable here.

tornado, get your facts straight – get your facts straight, that’ll be a first for you.

NO, repeat NO graves were damaged because none were attacked! Now, surely, if this attack had been meant to target the Argentinian dead interred on the Islands then the graves would have been desecrated would they not? What have British Regimental Colours got to do with it? The icon is the key to this.

If it wasn’t for the hours of fun you provide for us all, firstly in actually reading the words you write and secondly by then trying to understand what you mean, I would seriously consider putting you on the ignore list. That would be quite an achievement for you as you would be the first person I put on that list in over ten years of posting on Key.

Regards,

kev35

what part of it being a shrine/memorial put up to honour the dead can you not get in to your tiny biggoted mind ??

any attack on any memmorial to the dead is done by dispicable scumbags ,, end of !!

if it was damage done to any sort of british shrine memmorial you’d be spitting chunks !!

it is damage done irrelavent of if it is a grave or not !!

Took these back in 82, maybe the same one.

At the time it was between RAF Stanley and Port Stanley.

Baz

tornado, get your facts straight – get your facts straight, that’ll be a first for you.

NO, repeat NO graves were damaged because none were attacked! Now, surely, if this attack had been meant to target the Argentinian dead interred on the Islands then the graves would have been desecrated would they not? What have British Regimental Colours got to do with it? The icon is the key to this.

If it wasn’t for the hours of fun you provide for us all, firstly in actually reading the words you write and secondly by then trying to understand what you mean, I would seriously consider putting you on the ignore list. That would be quite an achievement for you as you would be the first person I put on that list in over ten years of posting on Key.

Regards,

kev35

“exactly the same as if it was a british war grave !!”

Do you ever read anything that is written? It wasn’t a war grave! None of the 237 graves in that Cemetery were touched, not a single one. The item damaged was the glass casing of a Religious (Catholic) icon.

doesn’t matter a jot what item it is still desecration , by your reasoning it would be difrent if it was british regimental colours and not a grave !!

“governments and millitaries get thier objectives done by brainwashing the young and gullable “

Didn’t you tell us some time ago that you had been in the Army?

yes when i was young and gullable at the same time the falklands was going on !! would i do it again ?? not on your life !!

“anyway it is all irrelavant because we have no carriers anymore and no fixed wing aircraft that could take off from a makeshift platform ship !! “

We may not now be able to retake the Falkland Islands if they were occupied by Argentina, but, equally, Argentina no longer has the capability to mount an invasion.

Note: Any harm caused to either the English language or the written word in this post are solely the responsibility of tornado64.

Regards,

kev35

i’d reply to the last but playground behaviour was given up by me many years ago i’d suggest others reel thier teddies back in thier cots and started following the same example !!

‘gullable’

Is that something to do with (or an act upon) a form of marine avian wildlife??

“exactly the same as if it was a british war grave !!”

Do you ever read anything that is written? It wasn’t a war grave! None of the 237 graves in that Cemetery were touched, not a single one. The item damaged was the glass casing of a Religious (Catholic) icon.

“governments and millitaries get thier objectives done by brainwashing the young and gullable “

Didn’t you tell us some time ago that you had been in the Army?

“anyway it is all irrelavant because we have no carriers anymore and no fixed wing aircraft that could take off from a makeshift platform ship !! “

We may not now be able to retake the Falkland Islands if they were occupied by Argentina, but, equally, Argentina no longer has the capability to mount an invasion.

Note: Any harm caused to either the English language or the written word in this post are solely the responsibility of tornado64.

Regards,

kev35

anyway it is all irrelavant because we have no carriers anymore and no fixed wing aircraft that could take off from a makeshift platform ship !!

exactly !! my brother at the hight of the cold war was on a relations excercise with either east german or soviets soldiers

they got told off on returning for drinking with them in a bar !!

naughty naughty !! we don’t want 5 yrs of hatred brainwashing failing because you actualy talk to some of them and discover deep down they are the same as you !!

Back in the 80s, in the course of my employment, I worked with a lot of aircrew flying for airlines of the old ‘Eastern Bloc’ countries. They were some of the nicest guys and gals that I used to deal with. On the turnrounds, some of them would invite both myself and loading staff ‘upstairs’ to share a coffee, and, if it was a good day, and they weren’t pressed for time, maybe sweets and a cake. There was no Cold War as far as we were all concerned. What I’m getting at is, wouldn’t it be great, if politics were kept out of international relations;)

…what’s the difference of the British government / press promoting ill feeling towards Argentina…

None, except that I don’t think that the British government has been promoting ‘ill feeling’ towards Argentina; I can’t really say what the British ‘gutter press’ has been promoting because I don’t take any notice of it.

As far as I can see, the rising ‘tensions’ have all been generated in Argentina; restricting access of British shipping to Argentine ports, making provocative ‘advertisements’ for Argentine athletes, threatening to stage protests or cause disruption during the London Olympics (the Argentine president ‘snubbing’ the UK by not attending :rolleyes:) and raising the issue of sovereignty, again, in the UN.

While the British government may have criticized some of these actions it has only maintained that the Falkland Islanders have a right to self-determination (a view supported by the UN) and has refused to enter into discussions about sovereignty because it isn’t actually up to the British government…

…a fact that the Argentine government seems to be unaware of.

As in 1982 the reason for these ‘rising tensions’ seems to be domestic problems in Argentina; despite domestic problems in Britain the issue of the Falklands doesn’t generate enough of a distraction to be centre-stage in British politics.

The Falkland Islanders themselves have announced a referendum to demonstrate their wish to remain independent of Argentina (and Britain) but I wonder if the results will be respected by Argentina.

Despite all the rhetoric about ‘oil’ any tax revenue from oil exploration will go to the Falkland Islands government not the British government…

…the Falkland Islanders could end up a rich as the Saudis!

Kev.
Like you I find the ongoing sabre rattling rather sad.
However, as I said, as ever I try to separate in my mind the actions of Governments from the actions of ordinary folk.
Although that isn’t always easy. The media love to talk about ‘the French’, ‘The Germans’, or in this case ‘The Argentinians’–all as if they’re a sort of homogenous lump. Looking at our own society, I doubt that state of affairs exists.
Now, every man/woman has a choice, and I suppose the Argentinian soldiers could have mutinied ‘en masse’, but I find it hard to blame the ordinary soldiers (many of whom were young conscripts) for the events of thirty years ago–many of whom no doubt are members of veteran organisations.
As to the current vandalism, whoever carried it out, I condemn them.

A.

governments and millitaries get thier objectives done by brainwashing the young and gullable

what’s the difference of the british government / press promoting ill feeling towards argentina , and the argentinians doing the same to us ???

the leaders stay nice and safe in an office whilst young lads die that have been brainwashed to hate , that would probably happily share a pint with each other but for governments greed and madness

exactly the same as if it was a british war grave !!

leaving politics out of it

they are all someones young sons that did not come back who cannot fight back !!

i understand the ill feeling towards argentina and the politics of it

but the dead are an unfair easy target !!

if they are that upset catch the first plane to argentina spot the first big built bloke and hit him “game on ” and much more sporting !!

Kev.
Like you I find the ongoing sabre rattling rather sad.
However, as I said, as ever I try to separate in my mind the actions of Governments from the actions of ordinary folk.
Although that isn’t always easy. The media love to talk about ‘the French’, ‘The Germans’, or in this case ‘The Argentinians’–all as if they’re a sort of homogenous lump. Looking at our own society, I doubt that state of affairs exists.
Now, every man/woman has a choice, and I suppose the Argentinian soldiers could have mutinied ‘en masse’, but I find it hard to blame the ordinary soldiers (many of whom were young conscripts) for the events of thirty years ago–many of whom no doubt are members of veteran organisations.
As to the current vandalism, whoever carried it out, I condemn them.

A.

Hi Andy.

Again I ask, why the icon and not the graves? In the recent vandalism of a Commonwealth Cemetery in Iraq the target was both the Cross of Sacrifice (obvious Religious significance) and the gravestones which by their very nature are uniform and only rarely pick out the individual by their Religion.

As to the Telegraph article you linked to I found it interesting that…..

Argentine war veterans yesterday denounced the violence as a “breach of humanity”

These are the very people who breached the humanity of the people of the Falkland Islands and precipitated a conflict in which almost a thousand people died.

Further…..

In its letter, the foreign ministry also insisted: “Deplorable actions such as these can be avoided through dialogue”.

Obviously, the Argentine Government has/had a somewhat twisted view of morality if they consider the desecration of a Religious icon deplorable whilst being more than happy to breach the sovereignty of the Islands by force of arms, to impose martial law and to imprison the inhabitants of Goose Green.

Cristina Kirchner, the Argentine president, repeatedly called on Britain to discuss sovereignty of the disputed archipelago as tensions rose in the build-up to the 30th anniversary of the Falklands War in April.

Is it just me that finds it incredibly sad that even thirty years on the political leadership of Argentina continue to rattle their sabre?

Regards,

kev35

Very true Moggy.

However, isn’t it a matter of scale? Great War casualties for the UK alone amounted to almost 890,000 dead. Of that number how many have no known grave? Maybe 300,000? So you would be talking about the repatriation of almost 600,000 British dead, a logistical and financial impossibility. Argentina had 649 killed of which 237 are buried in the Argentine Military Cemetery outside Darwin. The British Government offered to repatriate all of the Argentine dead buried in that Cemetery but were rebuffed by the Argentine Government. There is a huge difference between 600,000 and 237.

I believe there are also many German Cemeteries throughout France and Belgium too so the UK, and its Commonwealth and Dominions, were not the only Nations to have had such a policy. Only the other week I visited the Deutsche Soldatenfriedhof on Cannock Chase which has 4,855 burials from both World Wars.

Is it not true that since at least the Korean War the policy has been to repatriate British casualties where practicable and if the family so desires? Hence the fact that only 16 British service personnel remain buried on the Islands.

Regards,

kev35

I cannot understand the mentality of a Government which refused to have their dead repatriated even at the express wish of families involved.

Kev,
as Moggy said above, in the early days of The Great War the rich were getting their sons repatriated home to the UK.
The decision was made to stop that and all personnel would stay in the country (Theatre of Operations) they were killed in.
The words at the bottom of the CWWG (IWGC) headstones were paid for at a penny a word by the families of the deceased. Even this tends (imho and that of Martin Middlebrook) to reflect the differences in wealth and education of those involved. Incidentally, the dominions didn’t charge for the words–they thought that penny pinching of that sort wasn’t required..!

Going back to the Falklands, the Telegraph has posted a further piece.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/9445727/Argentina-sends-Britain-letter-repudiating-desecration-of-Falklands-war-cemetery.html

My own views on this are somewhat mixed.
I tend to have more than a considerable amount of sympathy for the families of the Argetinian dead. After all, most of them were conscripted into a war that was always going to be a mess.
As ever, it’s the ordinary folk who do the fighting, dieing and tax paying, while the rich sit back and reap the rewards.
In the case of the Falklands, the opinions of the islanders will be ignored in the rush for undersea mineral profits by big business.
Sadly for us all, war graves have always had a political backdrop. I have no doubt that the current government in Buenos Aires view the graves as no more than having a small extra toe-hold on the islands.

A.

I cannot understand the mentality of a Government which refused to have their dead repatriated even at the express wish of families involved.

Wasn’t that the policy decision of the British Government that has led to all the immaculate CWGC cemeteries in France?

Moggy

Those boys gave the ultimate sacrifice,i can never understand the mentality of some folk.

I cannot understand the mentality of a Government which refused to have their dead repatriated even at the express wish of families involved. Like I say, the graves were unmolested. I cannot for the life of me understand why only the icon was damaged.If it was some sort of protest against Argentina then surely the graves would have been desecrated? That screams out to me that it is a put up job from Argentina or it is NOTHING to do with the Falklands War.

It’s a reprehensible act, can’t argue with that, but I’m just uneasy blaming a Falkland Islander or a Squaddie without evidence, especially in light of the current political situation.

Regards,

kev35