More Wanaka pics…

Originally posted by turbo_NZ
The C-130’s down here still use webbing seats sideways, generally each side facing in to the centre and 2 centre rows facing out. Not terribly comfortable.
AFAIK the new 757 still uses airliner type arrangement.

Cheers
Chris

Chris, the webbing seats you describe are the troop seats. They are standard in military transports. The Andovers had them too, but as with most military transports this seating arrangement is optional. Troop seats are designed to fit as many people in as possible. They are lightweight and easily disassembled.

In the Andovers you simply could remove the troop seats, and roll on sections of false flooring with the more conventional airline seats in place on, which as I said faced backwards. These false floors rolled on like a pallet, clipping into the aircraft floor. Simplicity.

I never saw the Hercules in the RNZAF with the standard seat set-up (ie airliner seats) but I have to assume that they probably once had that before the 727’s were bought in 1981, because the Hercules then carried a VIP kit too I believe.

Another such changable seating arrangement is in the VIP Aircraft. The Andovers and 727 could be converted for VIP use. Politicians and their likes were not lowly enough for mere airliner seatsand boiled sweets. So the standard airline seats (yes the 757 will also have this setup) would be rolled off and they’d roll on a VIP kit.

I have actually been involved in the kitting out of a 727 once, in the brief time that Geoffrey Palmer was PM. About ten of us did the entire change over in an hour. It involved taking all the airliner seats out from the front half of the aircraft. Sections are then rolled in that contain couchs, drinks cabinet, television if I recall correctly, a huge mahogany board table that was simply beautiful (I remember the chippies had just resurfaced it because some VIP had scratched it on the previous trip!!:rolleyes: ), and various other fittings.

We also had to swap all the panelling from the standard interior you see on the walls of an airliner to carpeting and mahogany panels. All these items are premade, ready to clip in place. And plush carpeting was fitted out everywhere.

The PM has the option to call on any RNZAF aircraft to be ready for him/her to use within the hour. So when they suddenly say “I’m off to such and such now” this chrade has to be gone through. However on most occasions the RNZAF is much more prewarned than an hour.

I guess the same kit has been adapted for the 757. This is why Clark and her mates have bought new 757’s for their personal transports and neglected the aircraft that desperately needed replacement like the Sioux and Iroquois, etc. They were feathering their own nests, that’s all. They don’t care about the operational side of the transport – I mean we’ve sent troops off to war on Air New Zealand in the past. The troops don’t matter, but the PM doesn’t get as good a service on Air New Zealand, and might have to sit with a peasant, so she has ensured this won’t happen.

The C47 in the RNZAF museum is also a VIP aircraft, first kitted out in 1953 for the Queen’s visit to NZ. I understand that this was the first such VIP aircraft designed to a high VIP status in the RNZAF. In those days there were loads of aircraft so they chose to keep it in the same kit, and it flew solely as a VIP plane till it retired to the museum in 1977. It is still the same today as when the Queen flew in it. Immaculate it is too.

Here’s another very little known fact about the VIP aircraft. It’s a little surreal (and the fact that’s it’s 1.20am and I’m listening to Spike Milliagan on BBC7 doesn’t help, but I implore to you that this is true.) 42 Sqn, which flew the Dakota and later the VIP Andovers had a special collection of poos off the VIP flights. They had collected them over decades – taken from the enson at the end of a flight – they even had the Queen’s poo! All sealed up in labelled jars! Wierd, but you have to laugh. When you think about it, the aircraft is the best opportunity for VIP’s to have a dump. You can’t just break into an engagement and say “I’m off for an Eartha Kitt!” I guess if 42 Sqn is ever disbanded we may see this odd collection come up at Sothebys. LOL

Originally posted by dhfan
Sorry to jump in on a purely NZ thread… 🙂

As far as I know, all RAF transports have rear-facing seats and have done since somebody proved, many years ago, that it was much safer in crashes and, presumably, heavy landings.

Hey dhfan,

Feel free to jump in !! We’re not political people down here in NZ unlike other forums…..

It makes sense for it to be safer but must be a weird sensation, esp on take-off.

The C-130’s down here still use webbing seats sideways, generally each side facing in to the centre and 2 centre rows facing out. Not terribly comfortable.
AFAIK the new 757 still uses airliner type arrangement.

Cheers
Chris

🙂 🙂

Sorry to jump in on a purely NZ thread… 🙂

As far as I know, all RAF transports have rear-facing seats and have done since somebody proved, many years ago, that it was much safer in crashes and, presumably, heavy landings.

I had a quick wonder today to the Mil Forum.

They’re very political over there…….:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Dave Homewood
Yes indeed. It will be my first venture across to the Military forum though. I’ve tried to steer clear asi heard they’re all nuts about planes. LOL

Nuts is an appropriate word though not as bad as the commercial forum at the moment.

Yes indeed. It will be my first venture across to the Military forum though. I’ve tried to steer clear asi heard they’re all nuts about planes. LOL

Sound’s like MOTAT is well worth a visit now too.

Getting back to this thread subject…you interested in seeing a couple of the B757 piccies I took, Dave ?

I could put them onto the Military Forum, not really applicable here.

Cheers
Chris

Yes, it’s a V1. I see they now have it hanging above one of the stair wells! Imagine some old Londoner walking up the stairs, looking up, and seeing that right above them, could do a mischief.

There is also one at MoTaT. One of the two is real, and one is an American military-made copy made as a trial thing after they captured the real thing. I don’t remember which is which but I think MoTaT’s one is the copy.

I remember the museum being very Victorian style. Glad to hear it’s improved.
Must go see when I get up there. I also vaguely remember they had a flying bomb – either a Ohka or a V-1.
Can you remember what it was ?

Thanks for that, Dave

Cheers
Chris

Both the Zero and the Spitfire Mk XVI were removed from the museum a few years back, taken to Armore and completely restored. Both are now back there in new schemes and looking superb.

The Spit wears it’s only operational wartime scheme, camouflage rather than the post-war silver it wore for many decades.

And the Zero wears its genuine wartime paint scheme rather than the made up sqiggly camo it once wore. It is now overall dark green, just like the replica was. I did take a photo of each, I will post them once I have developed the film.

The manner in which all the wartime stuff is displayed there has also improved significantly. No longer looks like a Victorian era museum, now much better thought out with nice displays, audio-visual displays, dummies in uniforms, good lighting, etc. Overall, it was a great experience. My mate and I vowed to fly in and out in five minutes. We spent about 3/4 of an hour wandering round the military section, and still didn’t see half of what we wanted to. We’ll have to go back.

It is sad the museum didn’t decide to hand the Zero back to the RNZAF when they opened their museum, but it is great to see they have always taken great care of it, and now more than ever.

I’d love to see photos or film of it flying in 1958, at the Ohakea RNZAF 21st Anniversary Aishow. Cameras were there, I’ve got some beautiful footage of the Vampire display team there in colour, so maybe someone filmed it.

He is a bit of a git but at least he does promote aircraft somewhat. What a laugh about him getting lost, esp as he’s a tad on the arrogant side ay..:rolleyes:

That replica T-6 Zero was very well made and if you were less of an enthusiast than say we are, you’d be hard pressed to know the difference.

Are you talking about the Zero at the Museum ?
I remember seeing that as a boy.
Has it changed ?

The BD-5 is cool ay, ultimate microlight….:D

Cheers
Chris

Yes, Holmes is a big enthusiast as far as vintage planes goes. I think he owns a couple of things now, and he does indeed still have the red Stearman because he had a high profile incident only a few weeks back where he got lost on a cross-country and had to land in a farmer’s field, and crashed it into a fence. I don’t mind the fact that he likes planes, it’s good to see there are a few aviation things on his show. It’s just he’s such an annoying little git, and he’s usually the only media ‘star’ that a lot of foreign visitors meet. Not a great representative in my opinion.

Yes it was a replica T6-based Zero. It appeared in Tora Tora Tora too. I had a quick look at the real Zero in Auckland last week. Looks lovely in the new scheme they restored it in. Actually looks just like Sir Tim’s old replica now.

Yes, you’re right, it was the replica SE5 that had the ding. I would have liked to have seen the BD5 especially because it is so cute, and the type had a starring role in one of James Bond’s greatest escapes!

Cheers
Dave

Paul Holmes owned a Red Stearman biplane at one stage so he is actually an aircraft enthusiast believe it or not !!!

That airshow, the BD-5 microjet lost it’s nosewheel on landing and I think it was an Se-5a replica that tried to take off and stalled hitting the ground nose first. The pilot was okay though.

That was a T-6 “Zero” if I remember right (must watch the vid again).

In the RAF I believe the VC-10’s have backward seats also.
Must be strange, not as bad as trying not to go flying onto your left side while sitting sideways in a Herk doing full-reverse on landing….most uncomfortable !!!

Yes, that is the same Auckland airshow. That Albatross was a simply amazing aircraft. I recall when they landed in Auckland, the poor crew were met with a welcome from Paul Holmes. 😡 He always has to stick his face in, supposedly representing the rest of us. If I recall correctly they hrew him in the drink! i have that on tape somewhere.

That was a fantastic airshow, the best thing was the Harrier, which I’d never seen flying before or since. I was disappointed that the BD5 had crapped out the day before, I never got to see it. Something else also failed to perform that day, can’t recall what though. That was the first airshow that the Avenger and Zero flew at, the Hannas putting on a great Pacific display in the P40 and Zero. 🙂

That airshow was a long day for me, flew up in the morning from Christchurch and back in the evening. Luckily not in a Herc that time, but I have done a one-way in a Herc from Chch to Auckland. Noisy is right, and vibraty, and lovely. The Andovers were great as transports if they had the seats in, and not the troop seats. The sets were positioned so you sat flying backawards, a very weird sensation, but apparently about four times safer than conventional seating if you have to crash.

Ah yes, the “Leftovers” !! I remember them.
They had remarkable STOL performance and the “kneeling” undercart was quite a neat trick !!

That Auckland International Airshow,….was that the one with the Beriev Be-40 Albatross Jet amphibian was present at ?
If so, I have that one on vid tape here. Quite an incredible jet. They landed it in the Waitemata Harbour if I remember right.

I once flew in a Herk from Christchurch to Waiouru for my basic TF Army training. Noisy, uncomfortable and really hard short landing !!
I loved it !!!

Glad I made you giggle. 🙂

Yes, the great thing about the Herc and Orion displays, it’s not just the sight and sound of thouse big Alisons, you can actually FEEL them, shaking the ground, and shaking you to the bone, if you’re close enough.

I had that same experience at a Wigram airshow. As my job involved parachutes, I was ordered to go out on the powerpull with a mate and pick up the parachutes just dropped by an Andover in its display routine. The plane had climbed off and we were given the all clear by the tower to get out there and clear the dtrip before the next planes took off. However the pilot wasn’t finished it seems. He came down low, hard and fast, right above us, dead centre. My God that was an awesome experience. He was literally less that 20 feet above us I reckon. Talk about good vibrations. When we got back to the flightline there were a few people there worried that they’d mucked up by sending us out. However, we were very happy with this unique experience! Beaming all day I was.

I have not had the opportunity to see either of the new Boeings yet. But I know the 727’s were simply awesome, and I dare say the 757’s probably take it to another level.

I once saw an Air New Zealand 747-400 rung out at the Auckland International Airshow, now that was impressive to say the least. I wonder what first-time passengers awaiting to get onto a real flight thought when they looked out of the terminal windows and saw a 747 doing ‘aerobatics’! They probably packed themselves if they didn’t know there was an airshow on!

ha ha ha I love it, Dave

Excellent response !!!

Doesn’t matter how many times I see it,…the RNZAF Orion & Hercules low level flat out passes just leave me breathless !!

And seeing the 757 pushing 400 knots not far off the ground and then pulling up in a high G climb is a veru unusual look that Boeing probably never envisaged their baby would ever be doing..!!!

Oh, and I forgot to mention the Jato-powered CT4K Attacker, which as we all know has been at the front line in the war against the evil penguin empire on the Antartic tundra, which is probably the most deadly region on the planet right now. Those penguins will never get our fish!! The %$#@*s.

Don’t they know they cannot win? After all, we quelled the 66 million sheep that attempted a military-style coup last year.

The RNZAF will be victrorious

Muu-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha

Nice Chris.

Yes all three types are historic enough to be here – they have all operated in combat zones or potentially threatening areas, so they are warbirds too.

The Hercs are definately warbirds – having served most notably in the Gulf War. They have also operated in many warring countries on humanitarian grounds as well as providing logisitics.

The Iroquois has seen service in many trouble spots too, such as Timor, Sinai, Guadalcanal, etc. So they too are warbirds in a way.

And of course the P3’s are even today serving in the troubled Middle East in Operation Enduring Freeoil.

Each fleet is probably the longest serving and best kept of type in the world – all entered service in 1965 (though a few additions were made between then and 1970 so a few are mere ‘babies’.

The Orions are the only P3K’s in the world, and they look damned impressive in that low viz scheme. Another thing historic about them are they are now our only bomber strike force!

And it won’t be long before the RNZAF Iroquois is no more. They and the Sioux are undergoing a replacement programme now.
The Hercules is also coming up for replacement, something that should have been done ten years ago when we had the chance of a deal with Aussie.

Dave

4. CT-4 fighter-bombers with JATO out the back for increased speed over target area….:D

That’s it.

I have more including our new RNZAF Boeing 757 pics but might be pushing my luck posting them here….;)

Cheers
Chris