Mothball Vulcan XH558??

Nice points there Mike .Sadly all very much on the nail!

Throwing a curved ball in -there are few who would argue that the Boeing 707 isn’t hugely influential in air transport ! However with one being scrapped at Manston there is little chance of a complete machine now being preserved in this country. We do however have numerous ‘duplicates’ in preservation -do we need to adopt a Noah’s Ark approach rather than multiple duplication based on popularity?

The problem is, David, as we’ve discussed here many times before, there is no co-ordinated collecting policy in the UK (or indeed any other country AFAIK). It is left to each individual museum or private collector decide what is deemed worthy of preservation. Availability of airframes obviously plays a major part. Hence we have dozens of Mystere IVs, a type with almost no significance in the UK, rotting into the dirt at some of the smaller museums, likewise a surfeit (many would argue) of Vulcans, yet a relative paucity of Victors and just a single Valiant.

With no overall national collection actively adding to their airframes since the Science Museum stopped in the 1980s, and the likes of the RAF Museum and IWM having a specialist remit, the chances of any serious long-term (i.e. indoor) further preservation of airliners must be virtually nil, since the ‘plague of Concordes’ that was inflicted on the UK preservation movement a few years back after BA’s withdrawal of the type. So we are left with a few Viscounts, BAC-111s, a couple of Britannias (none of which types AFAIK have any realistic chance of going under cover), one Comet inside at DX, and that’s about it. Unlikely that a Bristol Freighter will ever be seen again in the UK, nothing pre-war (apart from the dH biplanes) AFAIK, and that’s about the sum of the preserved remnants of the once-proud British airliner industry. In 100 years, the population will be left to think that in the 20th century everyone travelled in airliners with delta wings and pointy noses, as that’s all that will be left!

Still, there’s a good selection of classic US types tucked up nice and warm in Wroughton. 🙂

The Vulcan is a ” Flag Waver ” at a time when we needed/need it most, a product of British Engineering .when we had True Engineers & an aircraft industry .

A time when we did the job from start to finish ….not the pathetic industry we have today , screwing wings onto a large plastic French airliner or sticking the nose cone onto a Rafale lookalike …..

Throwing a curved ball in -there are few who would argue that the Boeing 707 isn’t hugely influential in air transport ! However with one being scrapped at Manston there is little chance of a complete machine now being preserved in this country. We do however have numerous ‘duplicates’ in preservation -do we need to adopt a Noah’s Ark approach rather than multiple duplication based on popularity?

John – there will be Vulcan fanatics spitting out their coffee at ‘the Vulcan has little significant history’ comment!

John, what I meant to say was that, as you have so eloquently pointed out, a case can can be made for the preservation of numerous aircraft based on the role they played in aviation history. And you will find as many shades of opinion as to which cases are the most justifiable as there are people making them.

The Vulcan and the Victor might not have shared the illustrious history of the thousands of “warbirds” worthy of preservation but they were/are of unique design and performed a unique role during a period when we arguably came closer to armageddon than at any time during any previous conflicts.

How we arrive at any course of action is subjective on several levels.

Charlie,

They are not entirely ‘subjective judgments’ – if at all. It is entirely possible to quantify history as applied to aircraft and most other things.

No one would deny for example, that the numbers of breathtakingly elegant and deadly Spitfires and the slightly less elegant but almost equally deadly Hurricane deserve taxpayer funded preservation for all time. Setting to one side, for a moment, their eternal appeal to aviation enthusiasts, consider their success on the wider stage of the horrific international conflict of WW2. They secured the first significant defeat of German arms and lit the path towards ultimate victory. That, made history – not subjectively, but objectively.

Consider the Mosquito. I’m sure you know its offensive history. Amiens, Gestapo HQ. PR, Eindhoven, target marking etc. The world’s first MRCA. The flying preservation of this illustrious aircraft deserves every shekel that we can prise from our purse. How Glyn Powell did what he did and continues to do without one penny of public donations continues to astound me. The Mosquito made history. A different history to the Spitfire and Hurricane but, a history that resounds to this day.

Consider the Hawker Tempest/Typhoon. In terms of public knowledge, hardly on the horizon ! Did they make history ? Yes, they emphatically did. The story of these two fighters can be seen against numbers of flying bombs (V.1s) destroyed and aerial interdiction over the Normandy battlefield. Heinz Guderian (Panzer Leader, Futura Publications Ltd) is quoted as saying that Allied control of the air over Normandy and the inability of the German Army to move men and material by day due to the ceaseless presence of Allied fighter bombers brought certain victory to the Allies during the Normandy campaign. Did the Tempest and Typhoon make history ? Most certainly.

Judged by the question: did they make history and are they therefore worthy of flying preservation? Unequivocally yes ! Are there others? Yes. The Short Sunderland, Stirling, Halifax, even the Hengest and Horsa gliders for their significant part in events.

Can they then all be preserved ? No. Unless of course by taxpayer funded donations. Should they all be preserved in flying condition ? Personally, I believe that one representative of each should. Would this be practical ? Probably not. We can tho’ preserve those that are in sufficient numbers and retain a depth of public interest.

Apart from one glorious episode, the Vulcan has little significant history. It was one of three V bombers whose purpose was to deter a would be aggressor. It did that just by being there in a passive sense. It is an enthusiasts aeroplane supported by their donations and hopefully that will continue for a long time until that is donation fatigue starts to make itself felt.

It’s probably been said before – many times; the Vulcan, as seductive as it undoubtedly is, hasn’t got much history; a Mosquito has and therefore in my personal opinion, is the much more worthy target for preservation.

My wife and I both, much enjoy the sight and sound of the Avro Vulcan and have regularly contributed to its funding.

Again these are subjective judgments. How do you quantify history? At the end of it, as I said before, there will be no consensus and the debate over which aircraft justifies preservation over another will rage until there are none left.

I would still do it over again, even with hindsight, and who knows?- in the next decade we might well see a Mossie return to the UK skies.:)

The Vulcan is of limited use for instruction. Being large adds no real benefit over something like a Jet Provost and the systems now are very dated.

It’s probably been said before – many times; the Vulcan, as seductive as it undoubtedly is, hasn’t got much history; a Mosquito has and therefore in my personal opinion, is the much more worthy target for preservation.

My wife and I both, much enjoy the sight and sound of the Avro Vulcan and have regularly contributed to its funding.

That’s life – you will never get agreement about which aircraft to spend how much on so in the end it’s not worth the argument.

For many hundreds of thousands of us it has been sheer joy to see the Vulcan displaying for the last 5 years and I don’t regret a penny of what I have donated and I can’t wait for a final few shows this year, if the funding gets her to successful April test flights.

Just a pity that some think that the wrong a/c was chosen upon which to spend all this money.

Pleased to see we have a chance of one more year.
Don’t much care for the arguments about the cost and fund raising methods. Those that liked the project were happy to continue putting their hands in their pockets.
They have at least proved a civillian organisation can do the job if they can raise the required funding. If you can do it under UK rules then you can do it anywhere.
As for the future I’d like to see her being a live exhibit as I believe she does has an educational benefit. As well as a reminder of the past she can be used to teach modern apprentices basic procedures and practical skills. Being run as a business I can think of a whole host of skills that could be taught around her survival. If that also employs a few people at the same time then why not.
I personally think that the vulcan operating company could be very good teachers to people in the future about how to operate old complex aircraft and the pit falls to be faced.
It might not be everyones first choice about what to do with retired aircraft but you can’t say they didn’t achieve the primiary aim of getting one back in to the air.

And the 400k has been achieved so it’s go for service 🙂

Trust Chief Executive, Robert Pleming writes:

“Thanks to the on-going support of our supporters and the wider public, we have now seen nearly £350,000 added to XH558’s Winter Service funding campaign. As the result, I’m happy to announce that we will recommence the winter service of XH558 immediately on our return from the Christmas break.

If all goes well, the Trust has sufficient funding to complete the Service, so we should be able to see XH558 restored to full airworthiness by the end of April.”

im only suggesting a one way ticket for the Vulcan to a museum. by this time its flying hours would be up save for a few hours on the transit flight. once where ever it is it would be stripped of all usefull and serviceable spares that would be shipped back to the UK to be sold on to the live Vulcans we have here.. This way she would remain on the ground

………..or even an Airworthy Harrier but then the CAA get in the way!!!! :confused:

Yes, just like they did with flying Lightnings. And so off they went to South Africa, and we all know how that ended up. 🙁

Perhaps an exchange for something we have few of or none at all?. An airworthy Mossi would not go amiss or even an Airworthy Harrier but then the CAA get in the way!!!! :confused:

I’m sure some Americans (or Russians) would want her. :rolleyes:
After all, one of few hangared Vulcans is in the US.

..

Perhaps the Argies would like XH558 for a museum display?. im sure she would be looked after better down there???????????????????????? :diablo: