Mr Humpty Dumpty and Lady Who to lead Europe

Exactly – in a nutshell. And I think that we should refuse any further payments to the EU until the accounts have signed off – for the last 13 years! And how our friend can even talk about democracy in the EU I do not understand.

Any thoughts on the questions in post #8?

I was rather hoping that you’d have answered them by now, but it is Friday evening. 🙂

At no time since have we had any chance to voice our displeasure at being led into a Federal Europe by our ‘leaders’.
rgds baz

I thought that was what general elections were for. 😉

And how our friend can even talk about democracy in the EU I do not understand.

I refer again to the European Parliament. More democratic I suggest than the internal UK system. This “non democratic” EU stuff does not wash, although it does if you don’t participate to the full within the Union structures and procedures, the UK seems constantly adverse to doing this and then blames all the other members who do for lauding it over the UK, you can’t have it both ways. Seriously, if the UK does not adopt a more positive stance towards the EU and the many benefits of being within it, because we only seem to hear about the negative aspects of that, then I fear the country will be on a hiding to nothing.

I have just checked the wording of our 1975 referendum…

Answer yes or no
Do you think the uk should stay in the European Community (Common Market) ?

At no time since have we had any chance to voice our displeasure at being led into a Federal Europe by our ‘leaders’.

The EEC (European Economic Community) normally was referred to as the ‘Common Market’ – at that time our politicians did not tell us the real long term plans for a super state.

Other countries have managed to survive without being full members,being a full member is great for the poorer countries but I’ll bet there is a large proportion of people in all the original member countries who are very unhappy at the way they have been misled into the current wasteful and corrupt monstrosity.

To finish…I think the original aims of the EEC were very laudable but somewhere in the 1970’s the vultures started to infiltrate …and of course the agricultural subsidies etc were always ripe for the picking.

rgds baz

I totally respect your point of view. What do you perceive as the alternative to the EU, especially as many states the world over are gravitating together into regional power and trading blocs.

One of the big problems is that a large proportion of us have never wanted to join the ‘EU’,we have never been given a chance to vote on joining the ‘EU’.
The EU is a wasteful Juggernaut which is out of control and the fat pigs are well and truly at the trough :rolleyes:
It has been demonstrated very publically recently that if the EU does not get the desired result then it merely keeps repeating the referendum until it gets the desired result.. I want no part of it…our own elected government is wasteful enough but the Euro Gravy train is just astounding and just keeps on getting bigger and therefore more expensive.

Exactly – in a nutshell. And I think that we should refuse any further payments to the EU until the accounts have signed off – for the last 13 years! And how our friend can even talk about democracy in the EU I do not understand.

Frankly, considering the UKs attitude towards the EU I am amazed that there are any Brits at all in this new set up. Instead of sitting on the sidelines and constantly carping, moaning and opting out of this and that why not do as France, Germany and others have done and get stuck into this Union and make it work for the UK instead of berating the countries who have. The main reason that the EU is constantly perceived as “non democratic” is that it is constantly painted as such in the UKs “popular press” and by irresponsible politicians and “experts” who serve an agenda all their own. Does not the European Parliament exist for the purpose of overseeing the activities and policies of the EU and representing the interests of its citizens? But then again so few UK citizens get off their backsides to vote in the Euro elections that perhaps the UK has ended up with the EU it deserves. High time that the UK showed the other members that it has the confidence and capability to also be a major driving force within the Union, and you aint going to do that peering at the others through the slits in the bunker of nationalism and wistfully dreaming of times past.

One of the big problems is that a large proportion of us have never wanted to join the ‘EU’,we have never been given a chance to vote on joining the ‘EU’.
The EU is a wasteful Juggernaut which is out of control and the fat pigs are well and truly at the trough :rolleyes:
It has been demonstrated very publically recently that if the EU does not get the desired result then it merely keeps repeating the referendum until it gets the desired result.. I want no part of it…our own elected government is wasteful enough but the Euro Gravy train is just astounding and just keeps on getting bigger and therefore more expensive.

Frankly, considering the UKs attitude towards the EU I am amazed that there are any Brits at all in this new set up. Instead of sitting on the sidelines and constantly carping, moaning and opting out of this and that why not do as France, Germany and others have done and get stuck into this Union and make it work for the UK instead of berating the countries who have. The main reason that the EU is constantly perceived as “non democratic” is that it is constantly painted as such in the UKs “popular press” and by irresponsible politicians and “experts” who serve an agenda all their own. Does not the European Parliament exist for the purpose of overseeing the activities and policies of the EU and representing the interests of its citizens? But then again so few UK citizens get off their backsides to vote in the Euro elections that perhaps the UK has ended up with the EU it deserves. High time that the UK showed the other members that it has the confidence and capability to also be a major driving force within the Union, and you aint going to do that peering at the others through the slits in the bunker of nationalism and wistfully dreaming of times past.

Change Westminster (and Holyrood) for Brussels and see how true that statement is as well

Well do a degree, yes. But the difference is that we are wasting our money on ourselves whereas Brussels is funding 26 other countries in which we have no interest other than as real or potential trading partners.

A couple of questions from across the pond.

Let me see if I have this correct….
It seems that there is a bit of redundency in the way the UK fits into the EU.
Every nation has a foreign office, military establishment, financial, trade, agriculture and environmental offices, then all those are duplicated in Brussels.

But can’t the EU govenment pretty much dictate what the UK can do?
If the UK passes a law that Brussels doesn’t like, can’t it penalize the UK for it or make it conform to EU policy?
In other words, it seems the EU has a lot of power over formerly national laws.

If so, why not disband European governments for everything except purely local matters?
Seems that there could be huge savings.

Brussels is a cash cow into which billions of pounds of money we could well do with here, is poured to be spent on grandiose, wasteful and unnecessary schemes and to line the pockets of and feather the nests of its massive army of employees and representatives.

Change Westminster (and Holyrood) for Brussels and see how true that statement is as well

So now I want out. I simply do not want faceless, unaccountable bureaucrats wasting my money and deciding on details of my life. It is bad enough here, although that might change, and at least there is a semblance of democracy here.

Fair enough.

So……..

How would the UK pay its way in the world?

What vital goods or materials does this country produce or manufacture that non-EU countries would wish to buy from us, or that would induce the EU to negotiate a favourable trade treaty with us?

How long do you think overseas investors would hang around here once the UK was no longer a (comparatively) cheap point of entry into major European markets?

How long do you think London would last as a major financial and legal centre once the UK was no longer a point of entry into major European markets?

Serious questions, with no comforting answers.

From being a keen and active promoter of the Common Market 50 years ago I am now totally disillusioned with the post-Lisbon situation. Once Brown had flunked the referendum the result was inevitable.

So now I want out. I simply do not want faceless, unaccountable bureaucrats wasting my money and deciding on details of my life. It is bad enough here, although that might change, and at least there is a semblance of democracy here.

Brussels is a cash cow into which billions of pounds of money we could well do with here, is poured to be spent on grandiose, wasteful and unnecessary schemes and to line the pockets of and feather the nests of its massive army of employees and representatives.

But I suppose we can look on the bright side safe in the knowledge that with such low profile representatives the EU is less likely to try to throw its weight around, on our behalf.

Hmmm…being as the Belgique is merely a puppet for france and germany I am not sure I feel as confident about that .

Not bad considering the uk only ever voted to join the european trading community …personally I voted against,I have never fancied being ruled by france and germany,but that is the future we now face.
And of course as alluded to by Andy and others…another vast and wasteful gravy train to put our hard earned cash into.
Indeed the phrases ‘Democracy’ and ‘EU’ do not go hand in hand :rolleyes:

Ah well…..it will all be OK when we have the referendum.

What?

Cancelled, you say? Not going to happen?

But our politicians promised.

Do you mean to say that I can no longer trust our politicians?

And there was I thinking they were an honest lot with integrity their byword.

Silly me.

Was there an election?

Did I miss something?

Or was this the wonderful “democracy” that is the EU in action?

Well, exactly, Tangmere! The words “democracy” and “European Union” seldom sit well together. But I suppose we can look on the bright side safe in the knowledge that with such low profile representatives the EU is less likely to try to throw its weight around, on our behalf. I read that Lady Who will have a staff of 6,000 supporting her. 6,000!!! – if it’s true, it’s an outrage.

Was there an election?

Did I miss something?

Or was this the wonderful “democracy” that is the EU in action?