Mustang/Skyraider collision on Channel 5

Excellent moves by both pilots after the midair.
As we all have seen they both had very little time to do what they had to do.

Agreed. Brave of the Skyraider pilot too. He couldn’t have been criticised by anyone had he decided to climb to height and abandon ship with the extent of his damage.

My question….Watching in real life, and looking at the V Formation diagrams in the accident report it seems that the first aircraft (Mustang) crosses in front of the second aircraft (Skyraider) during the break.

Would it not be better for the outside aircraft to break first?
In my military formation flying (which incl a war zone) before a break we went from a “V” to an “Echelon Left or Right” or “Trail”.

Indeed, and my immediate thoughts on seeing the video reports of the accident were the same – it’s difficult to do a perfectly safe run in and break in anything other than echelon (unless you are doing an opposition break, and in which the middle aircraft will break last). Breaking from vic with the leader first requires significant vertical displacement before any bank can be applied to gain lateral separation. Do a break in echelon, and the subsequent aircraft in the break shouldn’t really have to worry too much about the positioning of the previous aircraft in the formation until getting their spacing on finals (unless the leader has a brain fart and tries to break the wrong way!).

It’ll be interesting to see the format for this years balbo. TBH, it doubt it would make any difference to the spectacle if the final run ins were made in echelon as opposed to vic.

I was in Le Fertais after the accident. I asked one of the pilots if the Skyraider pilot was ok and he said he was, but seemed to put the blame with Rob Davies. I didn’t pursue the conversation.

They have a point.

If you play the film backwards, you can clearly see the Mustang reversing into the blameless Skyraider.

I was in Le Fertais after the accident. I asked one of the pilots if the Skyraider pilot was ok and he said he was, but seemed to put the blame with Rob Davies.

Quel surprise…;)

I’ve been thinking the same thing about the break, as logically, one would think the left one should go first. I wasn’t gonna say anything as I don’t wanna put my mouth where my knowledge is not, but since the above poster mentioned it and seemed to have some experience…

That would be the case if Rob had merely turned left, but he pulled up & then turned left, so he was well above the Skyraider when he turned.

It was rather shocking seeing it all happen at 400mm! Just very glad that they were both OK, especially as my mind didn’t register seeing the chute.

I was watching some youtube videos of Legends 1996 the other day where they did the run in and breaks in echelon right.

I’ve been thinking the same thing about the break, as logically, one would think the left one should go first. I wasn’t gonna say anything as I don’t wanna put my mouth where my knowledge is not, but since the above poster mentioned it and seemed to have some experience…

V Formation & who breaks first?

Excellent moves by both pilots after the midair.
As we all have seen they both had very little time to do what they had to do.

My question….Watching in real life, and looking at the V Formation diagrams in the accident report it seems that the first aircraft (Mustang) crosses in front of the second aircraft (Skyraider) during the break.

Would it not be better for the outside aircraft to break first?
In my military formation flying (which incl a war zone) before a break we went from a “V” to an “Echelon Left or Right” or “Trail”.

Direct link http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/P-51D%20Mustang%20D-FBBD%20and%20%20Douglas%20AD-4N%20Skyraider%20F-AZDP%2002-12.pdf

A good reminder of the benefit of a bonedome ( Campbell helmet in this case )

Rob Davies struck his head on the tailplane, and with only milliseconds to spare had to pull the chord, not so easy if you have been knocked out.

Leather helmets make for better warbird photos, but the BBMF, for instance, are quite adamant on the policy.

Taken by one of our members I see 😀

AAIB report just published. Amazing shot of the impact.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/february_2012.cfm

Thanks Propstrike

Strong Parachutes.

http://www.strongparachutes.com/index.php

Apparently sales of the parachute Rob Davies used went off the scale
after he used his.
mmitch.

Out of interest what make was this.

Like most things there are two sides to every story.

I was in Le Fertais after the accident. I asked one of the pilots if the Skyraider pilot was ok and he said he was, but seemed to put the blame with Rob Davies. I didn’t pursue the conversation.

I guess the right people will put the blame where it should be, but I honestly have to say that I can’t see how the Frenchies will come out on top on this one.

I was in Le Fertais after the accident. I asked one of the pilots if the Skyraider pilot was ok and he said he was, but seemed to put the blame with Rob Davies. I didn’t pursue the conversation.

The other side of this is that BBD was slowing (he did have his flaps down) and the Skyraider mistook the last Mustang in the previous group for BBD, which is possibly why he tightened his turn. It will be interesting to see what the investigation comes up with.

.ooOoops..

On the subject of quick thinking, the Skyraider pilot did amazingly well to complete a roll with half of the starboard wing missing and then recover to a safe landing. Lucky that the aileron didn’t detach. I can’t work out why he caught BBD up so quickly after the 2 second break.

Such ‘breaks’ have traditionally been used to bleed-off energy to get down to gear limit speeds etc. If they were indeed about to land, One must presume that the Skyraider wasn’t slowing down so quickly, so he needn’t have been actually accelerating. Not a big problem if he’d have held his turn outside the Mustang. Pulling inside, he probably lost sight of it. **** happens, but they guys were all OK, which is the main thing.

On the subject of quick thinking, the Skyraider pilot did amazingly well to complete a roll with half of the starboard wing missing and then recover to a safe landing. Lucky that the aileron didn’t detach. I can’t work out why he caught BBD up so quickly after the 2 second break.