[updated:LAST EDITED ON 07-12-02 AT 10:28 PM (GMT)]One of the areas I worry about is security. I am not an expert, but I do fly quite often and I hopefully have the same observations to make as any thoughtful and concerned traveller. My thoughts are sadly voluminous, so sorry! I have some more, but this is more than enough for now. Any comments from all you experts?
1. AIRPORTS
a. All airports should implement the passenger tracking system which is currently in place at various airports (LHR, LGW, MAN and so on, but not at regional airports and I don’t think on the continent). The main achievements of this system are that passenger names and boarding info are matched to a snapshot of the passenger. This has potential to (i) automate a link up to “echelon” (or whatever it is called) to filter out suspected militants and (ii) provide a valuable resource to investigators in the event of another incident. This can be cross-checked to gate boarding pass readers to verify that the passenger actually did board.
b. This nonsense about being thrown in jail for having a pair of tweezers, but being allowed to buy a bottle of champagne to take on board, simply must stop. To prevent damage to the departure lounge revenue stream, a system could presumably be developed to allow purchases in duty free etc. to be loaded into the hold – ie. have a spare cargo container (LD3?) as the last item in the hold, specifically to store these items more safely. OK, maybe a bit much. But at least a designated area in the cabin, embargoed by the crew?
c. There must be guidelines in place for security staff. Pilots have to pass the ATPL requirements; engineers and ATCOs have similar requirements. A large proportion of security officers by contrast are either untrained (or poorly trained), asleep on the job, or the intellectual equivalent of a mollusc. I’d suggest national qualifications and RANDOM inspections by HM Customs (NOT the CAA/FAA/JAA!!!) to check that the standards remain high.
d. All interlined baggage to be scanned, regardless of circumstance. Even though they will have been previously scanned, militants will probably not take an A-B flight, but make various connections – purpose being to muddy the waters. Interlined bags are therefore higher risk and merit more security.
2. IN FLIGHT
a. In-flight duty free purchases cannot be handed over to the purchaser until the aircraft has landed. No samples on board either, just brochures or maybe plastic/rubber imitations.
b. Actual reinforcement of the “only plastic cuttlery” rule. We all know that airlines break this rule extremely often. I’ve witnessed it on a number of airlines (BA, Qantas, KLM) during 2002.
c. Actual reinforcement of the “shielded cockpit door” rule. I have only ever seen one BA aircraft with a reinforced door (an A319). I have flown on the B747, B757, B737, ERJ-145, 146, and ATP in the BA fleet during 2002 (most recently TODAY – 146 LGW-IOM) and I have not seen these doors.
d. These bomb-shielded cargo/baggage containers must be introduced. They are heavy and subsequently unpopular with the airlines. Fair engough. How about 25% of all containers flown in every 12 months, must be of the strenghtended variety (with also a minimum number of containers per aircraft too, to prevent selection by airlines)
By: mongu - 14th December 2002 at 13:17
RE: My thoughts on security
What you mean by “sky marshall” is “bouncer” – some big ugly thick brute of a guy who takes pleasure in taking charge.
I just think that might cause more trouble – intoxicated troulble makers might be freaked out and start to fight with him.
By: MSE - 13th December 2002 at 22:55
RE: My thoughts on security
True, but sometimes those sort of things are easier to solve.
A sky marshal, as it happens, would have solvesd the problem with the footballers today.
By: wysiwyg - 13th December 2002 at 20:21
RE: My thoughts on security
assuming a toilet exists right by the flightdeck
By: MSE - 13th December 2002 at 20:00
RE: My thoughts on security
a curtain!
There wouldnt be anything stopping them installing a secondary door that is locked before you come out to use a facility a re-opened for passengers when you are back in the front!
By: wysiwyg - 13th December 2002 at 19:23
RE: My thoughts on security
and on a mixed sex flightdeck?
By: mongu - 13th December 2002 at 08:30
RE: My thoughts on security
potty
By: wysiwyg - 13th December 2002 at 06:33
RE: My thoughts on security
Go on Mongu, at least give us the gist.
By: mongu - 12th December 2002 at 23:55
RE: My thoughts on security
Well there is a workaround…but I don’t think it’s a topic for public discussion!
By: wysiwyg - 12th December 2002 at 20:45
RE: My thoughts on security
My sector lengths are typically much longer than my bladder duration, so until Boeing create flightdeck toilets as standard fit I have to leave the flightdeck at some point.
By: mongu - 12th December 2002 at 20:07
RE: My thoughts on security
On the other hand though, the presence of sky marshals with no guns could actually encourage a group of militants.
By: MSE - 12th December 2002 at 20:04
RE: My thoughts on security
True, that is why positioning one in the cockpit offers the ‘last line of defence’
Our police dont carry guns, they are effective a bullet proof vest a baton and the power of arrest i feel could be enough to put off the majority especially if all they have is a knife. A Knife is a personal weapon and you can only stab 1 person at a time with the advantage that planes dont have a lot of space!
There is a school of thought, on a side, that they have used the planes as a method once, so the chances of a repeat attack greatly lower mainly because we ‘expect it’
By: mongu - 12th December 2002 at 19:05
RE: My thoughts on security
If you remove the gun from the marshall, how much more effective would he be than your average have-a-go passenger in a sticky situation?
Okay, maybe a bit more effective – but looked at in a cost/benefit context, a gun-less marshall seems a narrow choice.
Although they would still have weapons like tazers and batons, there is every chance such weapons could be taken off them by a group of militants.
By: MSE - 12th December 2002 at 18:50
RE: My thoughts on security
The point about the pilots is perfectly valid, it will always prove to be a tricky one.
Sky marshals however, do not need to be armed with the conventional ‘weapons’ It isn’t infeasible to give them stun guns, plastic bullets in real guns etc.
If we remove the opportunity for guns to be brought on board, then they could just have batons. Needing only to be able to defend/protect and arrest, using that favourite term ‘reasonable force’ or ‘force proportional to the risk.’ (and hope it is never tested to the limits!) – better that ‘professionals’, trained, carry out the necessary actions against cabin crew/passengers or even the pilot (then he wouldn’t have to exit the cockpit)
By: mongu - 12th December 2002 at 18:30
RE: My thoughts on security
Hi MSE – welcome on board.
You made some good points, although I do have resrvations on two points:
1. Sky Marshalls – I think there has to be a study to identify whether the benefit of them is proportionate to the risks involved. I also think there are some psychological issues involved – the marshall will be given the power of life and death. There might be an equal risk of the marshall flipping as of him saving everyone.
2. Whether or not a pilot opens the door is impossible to legislate for, because it depends on their psychological makeup. Some will, some won’t. The ones who will are not necessarily bad pilots, they’re just human.
By: MSE - 12th December 2002 at 12:32
RE: My thoughts on security
Thanks for the welcome; I cant (contracts) (security!!)
By: Hand87_5 - 12th December 2002 at 12:29
RE: My thoughts on security
New member : good …. welcome on board.
If you can (or if you want) can you tell us which type/airline do you fly?
By: MSE - 12th December 2002 at 12:23
RE: My thoughts on security
There are several valid points made, in the main body and the reply(S)
1. Sky Marshals may be a good idea, why not put one in the cockpit and one in the main cabin, with the cockpit having a CCTV feed from the cabin
2. As a pilot myself, I would never open the door to any hijacker etc, no matter what was going on and who it is. Better to try and save the rest of the people as quickly as possible than to assure everyones death.
3. Im sure that there can be bomb ‘proof’ fabrics/metals manufactured to be light weight and lined the hold as opposed to a single bin, etc; eg kevlar, could help.
There isnt an easy answer and i doubt that we will have 100% security. The old addage ‘were theres a will, theres a way’ sums up the problem.
Lets not forgett, we need to keep the customers happy, safe and encourage them to continue to fly, without impeding their ‘life’ and civil liberties. Without them, there is not point.
At the minute terrorism is winning, because some of us still seem to be living in a constant state of terror.
Looking at removing the main sources, whilst being an awsome task, is, in part, the sollution coupled with improving/maintaining security.
By: wysiwyg - 11th December 2002 at 15:12
RE: My thoughts on security
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 11-12-02 AT 03:14 PM (GMT)]I would think that Californians are the most likely to use the vanity mirror on the back of the flightdeck door!
By: mongu - 10th December 2002 at 21:01
RE: My thoughts on security
Interesting notion. I wonder if Californians are more likely to use autoland. Conversely, is a Russian or Italian are more likely to do it all by hand?
By: wysiwyg - 10th December 2002 at 18:52
RE: My thoughts on security
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 10-12-02 AT 06:58 PM (GMT)]surely more psychiatric than psychometric.
It is very interesting when you start to look at the effects of cultural difference with regard to aviation accident statistics. For example, the far east has always suffered from a high rate of accidents in the landing phase (particularly in poor weather). This is believed to be directly linked to the traditionally eastern thing of preserving ‘face’ amonst contempories. This leads to a marked reluctance to throw away a bad approach and go around. We on the other hand are actively encouraged to go around and in fact last week I heard that our company has a new policy of never asking a pilot to justify a go around as it is always assumed to be done for safety reasons.
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December 7, 2002 at 10:24 pm