I need some help in identifying an aircraft here. I was walking out to my plane to fly and I notcied another aircraft parked nearby. My IP tells me it is some Italian jet from the 1950’s. I’ve never seen this thing before. It had tip tanks, a T-tail almost indentical to that of the T-37, a long pitot tube on the port wing about halfway out, a two-seat tandem canopy, and although the nose was covered by a tarp, what appeared to be a nose-mounted air intake. Can anyone give me an idea as to what this damn thing was. I mean it looks like a former military aircraft, although it does have a civlian registration.
Help me please.
By the way, to the one or two people who might care, my flight went well. It was my fourth solo flight thus far.
By: Wombat - 15th August 2002 at 22:05
RE: Mystery Spanish Jet
Chaps
I’ve looked down this thread and wanted to make sure I wasn’t stating what had already been said.
The designer of the Ha-200 was none other than Willy Messerschmitt and this aircraft was actually a jet engined version of the HA-100 radial engined trainer, which was developed simultaneously. For some reason, the HA-100 development was slow, with its first flight occurring on 10 December 1953. The 200 first flew on 12 August 1955 It was equipped with twin Turbomeca Marbore II turbojets each of 400kp static thrust. The name Saetta means Arrow in Spanish. Total production, which ran from 1955 to 1967, totalled 97 aircraft and they served with Spain and the UAR.
The Saetta was Willy’s first post-war jet design and was followed by the HA-300 supersonic fighter, which flew on 25 June 1959 as a glider. Unfortunately, development was cancelled before the project was completed.
The Wombat
By: PhantomII - 15th August 2002 at 19:29
RE: Mystery Spanish Jet
Well, I’m supposed to fly today. I will be delayed because of weather, and I thought I remembered hearing that the Saeta was supposed to leave today. Hopefully, I’ll be around when they leave. I’d like to hear it on takeoff to compare to the T-37 and then report back. I’ll do my best to hear it. If it’s still there when I get there, I plan to get some good pictures of it. (I’m also going to photograph my own plane just for keepsake….the thing being my first plane so to speak.) If I get some good ones I could post them if you like.
By: Arthur - 15th August 2002 at 18:01
RE: Mystery Spanish Jet
>Arthur, that’s interesting about the Marbore. I didn’t know
>the J-69 was a licensed produced engine. I suppose I
>should’ve picked up on it because the power ratings are very
>close and because of the small size.
Actually, i never knew it until i was at an airshow where the Asas de Portugal (when they still existed… must be more than ten years ago now) flew with their T-37Cs, and were followed by a Belgian AF CM170. It was exactly the same tweeting, whistling sound, which is particularly annoying when the aircraft are taxiing (there is absolutely no malicious roar in the Marbore/J69, unlike other heavier whistling engines like the J79 or R27). I have never seen, let alone heard a Saeta 🙁 (make that a YET as far as i’m concerned) but perhaps you can ask if it’s going to fly anytime. I believe you mentioned having seen Tweets fly before, so you can compare the noise.
The abroad-design of the engine figures really, since a lot of the early jet engines built in the US were of foreign design (mostly British, but in the Marbore’s case French). IIRC, the last non-American ‘fast-jet’ engine was the TF41 for the A-7D/E (C too? To lazy to check) which was actually a RR Spey168.
By: Arabella-Cox - 15th August 2002 at 01:59
RE: Mystery Spanish Jet
cool pics.
By: PhantomII - 14th August 2002 at 23:57
RE: Mystery Spanish Jet
Arthur, that’s interesting about the Marbore. I didn’t know the J-69 was a licensed produced engine. I suppose I should’ve picked up on it because the power ratings are very close and because of the small size. Today when I was flying, as I taxied by headed to the runway, I got an up close look at the intakes on that thing (the tarp had partially blown away to reveal them) and you can see the fan blades on the engines quite easily. I was amazed as how close they were to the front of the aircraft.
I too was reminded of the MiG-9 when I saw the intake. I mentioned the Yak-36 because its intake is less rounded and more like that of the Saeta than the Fargo’s which is more rounded in my opinion.
I wonder if the USAF T-37’s that come in here know what that little aircraft parked down there is when they fly by. I bet most of them don’t have clue (the students at least).
I plan to try and get some good pictures if she’s parked out there tomorrow. It’d be nice to have pictures of such a rare aircraft as this one. It has been here for several days though.
By: Arthur - 14th August 2002 at 15:06
RE: Mystery Spanish Jet
There is some difference between the Yak-36 and the Saeta’s intake. The Freehand has the splitter plate directly at the leading edge, whereas the Saeta’s splitter plate is a bit further aft, inside the intake duct. The Saeta is a typical trainer of it’s day (1955) anyway, as it is one of three succesful trainertypes powered by two Turbomeca Marbore engines (the other one being the CM170 and the T-37, the last of course under license produced as J-69).
The Yak-36 made it’s first flight in 1963, so i think this should be considered a different category. Before people start thinking the Russians stole something again, i’d like to remind you to the intake of the MiG-9…
Anyway, no Saetas ever flew with the German air force as they used CM170s as jet trainers (when they still HAD jet trainers 😛 ). The German flag on that Saeta is probably because it’s the one flying in Germany with the Messerschmidt Stiftung (=foundation) as D-IWMS.
By: Ja Worsley - 14th August 2002 at 13:25
RE: Mystery Spanish Jet
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 14-08-02 AT 01:33 PM (GMT)]Ahhh the good old Aerobat, I’ve flown one of those VH-IVT back in 1988, not a bad little plane to learn on, but I prefered the Beach 77 Skipper!
Yes the intake is very reminisant of the 36, they did come from the same era! That first pic, is that a german flag on the tail? If so when did the Luftwaffe use them? Or is this just a display model?
Give me coffee and no-one gets hurt!
By: PhantomII - 13th August 2002 at 13:43
RE: Mystery Spanish Jet
Yes, Ja, it is a twin-jet. Powered by two Marbore turbojets. Actually though, the intake reminds me of that seen on the Yak-36 or something with an oval intake like that. The splitter doesn’t necessarily mean twin engined, but this time it does.
And Ja, I must have worded something funny. I don’t fly a jet, not yet anyway. I’m still working on my PPL. I fly a Cessna 152 II.
By: Ja Worsley - 13th August 2002 at 13:16
RE: Mystery Italian Jet
Guys, I noticed the twin inlets in the nose and I’ve forgotten, refresh my memory, was this a twin jet?
Give me coffee and no-one gets hurt!
By: EHVB - 13th August 2002 at 06:55
RE: Mystery Italian Jet
I photographed this example a few weeks ago over Madrid, where they have one flying in its airforce livery.
Attachments:
By: Ja Worsley - 13th August 2002 at 03:39
RE: Mystery Italian Jet
Yeah the Seata, that’s it!
Mate got any more pics of it?
And what’s this about you getting into your jet to fly to work? What have you got and where do you work that requires a jet to get there?
Give me coffee and no-one gets hurt!
By: PhantomII - 13th August 2002 at 00:51
RE: Mystery Italian Jet
Well, the mystery has been solved for anyone who cares. Here is a photo of the same type of plane. It is an HA-200 Saeta produced by the company Hispano. The HA-200A, HA-200D, and single-seat HA-220 were used by the Spanish Air Force while the HA-200B was used by Egypt. The B replaces the two 7.7-mm machine guns on the HA-200A/D with a 20-mm cannon.
Here’s the pic:
Attachments:
Sign In
August 12, 2002 at 11:53 pm