OK, here is a little mystery for a wet Monday (it is here anyway!)
We just had a guy walk into the workshop with some parts he had recovered from the widow of a local gentleman, who had an interest in aviation archaelogy. The widow was about to skip the parts, but he collected them to see if there was anything worth saving.
The first part is the interesting one – here is the first picture, so you can jump to the same conclusion that we did:
And here is the inside:
Oh goody you are saying – its a German cross, so its probably 109 or something similar. So did we! Now, you will notice the bracket on the inside. It has an A25/22E bolt holding it on, which makes the item British manufacture. The rivets are 100 degree which confirms this. There is a part number, which reads: EB211677181 X64388. The stringers are extruded, which is also a little unusual.
The guy who collected it lived in Caister – there is a rich history of crashes in this area, which leads neatly to the next item:
I think this might be Stirling; there are no numbers on it, but it does have British internal green paint, and Dark Earth on the outside of the frame. It would also make sense – in the 70’s, there was a Stirling washed onto the beach at Hemsby, just up the coast. Can anyone confirm my initial guess?
So, anyone any idea about the first item? A British aircraft with a German cross. Probably recovered in Norfolk somewhere. There must be a story here!
Bruce
By: hindenburg - 15th May 2010 at 14:10
Well it`s not Stirling Bruce .
By: Bruce - 15th May 2010 at 14:08
Its an old thread now – but I re-iterate; the two parts are not necessarily related. They came from the garage/shed of a gentleman who had passed away, and there were many other parts present as well.
The skin panel was from a British aircraft, but had a German cross on the outside – that is the part we have yet to identify!
Bruce
By: Al - 15th May 2010 at 14:02
Stirling N3705 MG-F of 7 Sqn was captured by the Germans after the pilot had to put her down near Gorkum on the 16th August 1942…
(from book ‘In Enemy Hands’ by Bryan Philpot)
By: hindenburg - 15th May 2010 at 13:46
Went to Norfolk and Suffolk museum from what I understand.
Bruce
Apparently in the bomber Command display cabinet now,donated by Mrs Greely
By: ZRX61 - 15th May 2010 at 13:41
& what about the skin panel? Those tabs on the end look familiar…
By: Bruce - 15th May 2010 at 13:14
Went to Norfolk and Suffolk museum from what I understand.
Bruce
By: hindenburg - 15th May 2010 at 13:08
Anyone know whatever happened to the Escape Hatch featured in this thread?
By: Bruce - 12th July 2007 at 07:28
Have we given up on this one then?
I hope not! Its an interesting one.
The part number I gave was my best interpretation of what we could see without destroying too much of the remaining paint. It could be F8 or E8, or FB or EB
It is probably from Norfolk, but who knows!
Bruce
By: Mark12 - 11th July 2007 at 23:11
Avro York
By: Creaking Door - 11th July 2007 at 23:00
Have we given up on this one then?
By: TEXANTOMCAT - 10th July 2007 at 09:28
One thought – presumably if a captured aircraft were damaged in a forced landing then the RAF would have had to use AM control pullies etc if no other captured German airframe could be cannibalised- simply to get it airworthy a/la 1426 EAF.. etc
What about a film prop? Many British aircraft or bits of British aircraft have stood in for Axis aircraft over the years (I remember the bizarre sight of a Piston Provost painted up as a Zero at Brunters only a few years ago!)
TT
By: Creaking Door - 10th July 2007 at 00:35
It has an A25/22E bolt holding it on, which makes the item British manufacture.
The rivets are 100 degree which confirms this. There is a part number, which reads: EB211677181 X64388.
Could the part number be FB211677181?
Bristol engines all have ‘FB??????’ format numbers but I’m not sure about Bristol airframes.
A nine digit number looks a bit long. Could it be ‘FB21167/181′?
By: Whitley_Project - 9th July 2007 at 22:10
Bruce – there must be a part number on that pulley mount somewhere…
By: Bruce - 9th July 2007 at 15:31
Dont get confused – we dont know what this panel is – the other part IS Stirling as confirmed elsewhere!
Bruce
By: Lindy's Lad - 9th July 2007 at 14:59
David,
No, its a bad picture – the inner colour is silver.
Which leads me back to wing again.
I am wondering what we are seeing though – if you look at the shape of the cross, there should start to be an intersecting black line at the top of the panel, on the right hand side, but there isnt.
Part number will be the key!
Bruce
Don’t worry about the intersecting black stripe – by the looks of it, the panel is split just short of where it would be…. NOW GO GET THE REST OF IT!!!! (a whole stirling would be nice…):D
By: Bruce - 9th July 2007 at 14:22
David,
No, its a bad picture – the inner colour is silver.
Which leads me back to wing again.
I am wondering what we are seeing though – if you look at the shape of the cross, there should start to be an intersecting black line at the top of the panel, on the right hand side, but there isnt.
Part number will be the key!
Bruce
By: TempestV - 9th July 2007 at 14:17
Further thoughts.
The inner skin colour shown is matt black. I am not aware of any wing innards that are so coloured, because you want them to be a light colour to aid inspection. Inner surfaces of wings I have seen can be green/white/cream/sliver/grey, etc.
If this is matt black, it points to a fuselage panel because of this. Yes this looks like part of a Luftwaffe cross, but could it be part of a nose art, or other design?
No clue on the part number? Which item does it mark?
By: JDK - 9th July 2007 at 13:44
Yes, thats possible, I guess, but it does have the appearance of having come from a crash site, as opposed to being dismantled and consigned to a skip.
it’s a guess at best. Also with a film aircraft you’d expect evidence of previous paint scheme(s) and not particularly good paint application. On the other hand, an aircraft could be gussied up to look like a crash for film or theatre, then skipped. Or real crash bits repainted… Straws…
Another couple of wild guesses – were any re-captured British aircraft brought back to the UK, post war?
And did the Germans operate any British types over the UK, other than KG-200 type items?
By: Bruce - 9th July 2007 at 13:24
David,
Judging by the shape, I would guess it was a wing panel, from the outboard section of a wing. I would think it would be too narrow for a fuselage panel, but who knows!
James,
Yes, thats possible, I guess, but it does have the appearance of having come from a crash site, as opposed to being dismantled and consigned to a skip.
Keep it coming guys. Who can give me an idea regarding the part number?
Bruce
By: TempestV - 9th July 2007 at 13:10
Hi Bruce
Interesting find! Does the panel indicate wing or fuselage to you, by its form, or internal reinforcement seen?
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July 9, 2007 at 12:23 pm