Nakhoda Ragam Class update??

Phexo, seems a bit odd the Algerian coast guard getting the AW-101’s i would guess they are going to be SAR birds? Im guessing the AW-139’s are for the police and customs departments as it would be an ideal fit. What helicopters are the Air Force and Army going to get in future any ideas?

Yes the AW-139 appears to be a good platform too, but i dont now with the “big” Merlin was selected for the SAR (perhaps the 3 motors ??? :confused: ).

For the other Merlin Deal, the version of the AW-101 (S&I configuration ) is equiped with canon, i dont have any infos about the possible AW-139 configuration.

For the Army, recently, we upgraded our Mi-17 Hip in ATE “SuperHip” standard (with FLIR, cannon, Ingwee lauchers), like the SuperHind MKIII, the backbone of the anti-terror war in Algeria.

Some rumors about the purchase of Mi-28N are frequent, but I’m doubt on his purchase… he has already been tested and rejected in Algeria in the past…

Phexo, seems a bit odd the Algerian coast guard getting the AW-101’s i would guess they are going to be SAR birds? Im guessing the AW-139’s are for the police and customs departments as it would be an ideal fit. What helicopters are the Air Force and Army going to get in future any ideas?

On the original subject of the ships, i would have no objections with them being sold to Algeria as they are not exactly cutting edge ships and would serve the needs of the country well. We might even get some after sales support money and in future maybe the ships could be updated with CAMM or VL Mica.

The UK can refuse to allow them to be sold to Algeria, but why should we?

Sea Wolf, even in its upgraded form, isn’t the latest. We’re currently testing a replacement for it. The ships may be too high tech for Brunei, but Brunei is a very small place with few skilled people (especially if you exclude expats) & very limited technical resources. Algeria has 90 times the population, & enough skills not to have any trouble operating such ships. They’re no higher tech than other kit they have, or are buying.

The ships are now between 7 & 8 years old, & the equipment on them is that much further from being state of the art than it was when new.

And I doubt we’re expecting to go to war with Algeria. We have no quarrels. They’re buying our helicopters, & selling us gas.

What’s the UK’s relationship with Algeria like? Will the UK be happy with Algeria getting Sea wolf missiles and probably other equipment that would of been meant for the UK’s friend Brunei. I heard these ships are pretty high tech when built and that’s why Brunei never took them. With Seawolf and other systems now being part of the big European firms can the UK do anything about it if it doesn’t want it’s main missile that arms it’s frigates being sold to Algeria?
I am glad they have benn sold finally they look like good ships. I hope the Algerians are small i’ve heard the ship is set out for shorter Brunei people.

Algeria is buying a lot of military equipment lately. If they did purchase these three warships will they still be interested in the six FREMM frigates were interested in buying???

Aparently, if this contract are true, they have no relation with the “frigate deal”…

Well the smaller Corvette’s would be ideal in the littoral and closer to home in the med while the FREMM class frigates could be used to take part in things like TF150 off the Somali Coast or other operations to build relations.

Algeria is buying loads of kit so yup it is possible that they could buy both. They also supposedly switched the FREMM order to italy no doubt the reason is so that they can buy it as part of a package with AW helicopters, im sure they were looking at the Merlin and the Italian FREMM’s can deploy them. Just my thoughts.

The big AW helicopters deal, and the AW-101 part, are not for the Algerian Army, but for the Coast Guard Section (6) and an unkown number for the security forces (gendarmerie, customs, police) not the “army”.
For the navy, we bought the AW SuperLynx (4) :

Well the smaller Corvette’s would be ideal in the littoral and closer to home in the med while the FREMM class frigates could be used to take part in things like TF150 off the Somali Coast or other operations to build relations.

Algeria is buying loads of kit so yup it is possible that they could buy both. They also supposedly switched the FREMM order to italy no doubt the reason is so that they can buy it as part of a package with AW helicopters, im sure they were looking at the Merlin and the Italian FREMM’s can deploy them. Just my thoughts.

Algeria is buying a lot of military equipment lately. If they did purchase these three warships will they still be interested in the six FREMM frigates were interested in buying???

I thought Kuwait bought them? i can’t remember where i heard that.

How Lurssen Wooed Brunei
By Intelligence Online 04/06/2009
Jun 15, 2009 – 7:44:53 AM

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Like car owners, governments insist that somebody take old equipment off their hands before buying new armaments. Complicated to set up, such deals nonetheless help suppliers to win contracts. The three Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs) that Germany’s Lurssen yard is about to deliver to the Royal Brunei Navy were sold in return for the Germans helping Brunei get rid of three slightly older ships. Brunei initially contracted Britain’s GEC-Marconi in 1998 to deliver three OPVs. Bought out by BAE Systems Surface Fleet Solutions, GEC delivered the Nakhoda Ragam in 2003 and the Bendahara Sakam and Jerambak in 2004. The three patrol boats were equipped with VL Seawolf and MM40 Exocet Block 2 missiles made by MBDA. But Brunei refused to take delivery of the vessels on the grounds they didn’t correspond to specifications that had been negotiated with the British group. Lurssen then stepped in to offer to take them off Brunei’s hands and re-sell them in return for a contract with Brunei for a similar number of ships. Through its affiliate Global Naval Systems, Lurssen offered the British-built patrol vessels to several Gulf countries but didn’t find buyers. Finally, it got Algeria to acquire them last year. The proceeds from the sale of GEC’s ships to Algeria will be partly deducted from the price of the three new vessels for Brunei.

Source:Ocnus.net 2009

http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish/Business_1/How_Lurssen_Wooed_Brunei.shtml

Any ideas about the current status/location of these ships ?

Malaysian OPV/Frigates were fitted with Nautis 1 – the system did not perform to spec and the delivery of the vessels were delayed for well over a year due to this. It also cost BAe a goodly sum due to well implemented penalty clauses. Nautis 2 is an upgrade and Brunei were the first customer.

NAUTIS – from forecast international
http://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/ws/ws11507.doc

The ship is equipped with the Alenia Marconi Systems (now BAE Systems Insyte) Nautis F combat data system.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/lekiu/

IIRC Lurssen is handling the resale of the Brunei OPVs

IIRC Brunei is the legal owner. BAe (now BVT) were paid for the ships. Brunei contracted with someone else – a German firm, I think – to take care of the ships & try to sell them.

Hello !
Thanks for the article orko_8 😉

Another new from the Russian ARMS-TASS website about the possible acquisition of the ex-Brunei OPV by the QJA (Algerian Navy) has emerged recently…

What is the legal owner of those ships now ? BVT SF ? GNS ?

And what do you think about the possible subsystems “export-clearance” of theses OPV’s for Algeria ?
The QJA now expect delivery of the first SuperLynx MK300 (absolute no idea of the armement )…

PS : Sorry for my english 😛

Point taken

Sea wolf (BLOCK 3 as I recall) for Brunei OPV was the latest block which had not been fully developed when the first OPV completed acceptance trials in June 2003. The vessels were to be handed over fitted for but NOT with the actual missiles. The missiles were scheduled for test firing in 2004 and delivery to Brunei would take place in 2005.

“Fitted for but not with” is a term applied to weapon systems, not the rounds fired from them. One can say that a ship is fitted for buy not with a gun, or a missile launcher. If the launcher is fitted, but has no missiles in it (what you describe), the ship is fitted with the system. The launchers can be loaded at any time. To say a ship with launchers, but no missiles, is “fitted for but not with” is like saying that a ship with an empty gun is “fitted for but not with” ammunition. It’s wrong: it’s a linguistic error.

brunei OPV

Malaysian OPV/Frigates were fitted with Nautis 1 – the system did not perform to spec and the delivery of the vessels were delayed for well over a year due to this. It also cost BAe a goodly sum due to well implemented penalty clauses. Nautis 2 is an upgrade and Brunei were the first customer.

Sea wolf (BLOCK 3 as I recall) for Brunei OPV was the latest block which had not been fully developed when the first OPV completed acceptance trials in June 2003. The vessels were to be handed over fitted for but NOT with the actual missiles. The missiles were scheduled for test firing in 2004 and delivery to Brunei would take place in 2005.

The first of these ships was completed in 2003 – thats 6 long years ago and the on-board systems are old hat.!!! They are fitted with a couple of one-off BAe systems ie The Nautis 2 command and control system & Ruston diesels that no other navy uses.
They were also fitted for but not with the latest block of Sea wolf missiles ( not even test fired in 2003). The ships had a crew of 76, mostly operator maintainers. The technical ability of the Brunei technicians was not good and they would have had great difficulty in maintaining the weapons & electronic systems. This is particularly so with the Sea Wolf tracker which is a nightmare for fully trained and experienced RN technicians

1) Nautis 2

The Nautis 2 system was also used in Malaysia’s Lekiu frigates and New Zealand’s HMNZS Canterbury (F421). It was also used in a variety of MCMVs: Australia’s Huon class, Japan’s Sugashima class, Saudi Arabia’s Sandown class and Spain’s Seguara class.
Source: The Naval Institute guide to world naval weapon systems (Norman Friedman)

2) Diesels

“The Nakhoda Ragam Class is powered by four MAN 20 RK270 diesel engines driving two shafts.”
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nakhoda/
“four MAN B&W Diesel Ruston 20 cylinder RK270 engines”
http://www4.marinelink.com/en-US/News/Article/Ruston-s-RK270-Engines-Power-Offshore-Patrol-Vessels/325401.aspx

MAN Diesel (formerly MAN B&W Diesel) is the world’s leading provider of large-bore diesel engines for marine propulsion systems and power plant applications and turbochargers. MAN Diesel is a subsidiary of the German multi-national MAN AG corporation since 1980. MAN Diesel owns the former (British) diesel businesses of Mirrlees Blackstone, Paxman and Ruston. Ruston & Hornsby was a major producer of small and medium diesel engines for land and marine applications. It was a pioneer and major developer in the industrial application of small (up to 10000kW) heavy duty gas turbines from the 1950s onwards. Technically, Ruston & Hornsby Ltd existed at the Vulcan Foundry in Newton-le-Willows in Merseyside until 2002, which was known as Ruston Diesels. It was taken over by MAN B&W Diesel AG on June 12 2000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAN_B%26W
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruston_(engine_builder)#Diesels_and_gas_turbines

Incat’s 98 metre TSV-1X Spearhead, currently on charter to the US military, is powered by RK270s.
http://www.wordsthatworkuk.com/MAN%20B&W%20NEWSLETTER%2005.pdf

The UK’s River Class OPV vessel is powered by two Ruston 12 RK 270 medium speed diesel engines
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/river_class/

The Condor Express (built by Incat) is powered by four 20-cylinder Ruston RK270 diesel unit
http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/condor/

3. SeaWolf

The ship’s surface-to-air missile is the MBDA (BAE Systems) Seawolf. The 16-cell VLS (vertical launch system) is installed in the forward main gun deck between the main gun and the bridge.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nakhoda/

Block 2 Sea Wolf is a replenishment upgrade to the existing stocks of Sea Wolf missiles. Block 2 missiles will replace all Sea Wolf missiles … as part of normal ammunition replenishment operations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Wolf_missile

Seawolf Block 2 will be provided to the Royal Navy and export customers in both configurations conventional launch Seawolf (ramp) and VL Seawolf (VLS).
http://www.deagel.com/Surface-to-Air-Missiles/Seawolf-Block-2_a001119003.aspx

I.e. There is no ‘fitting for but not with’ going on.

4. Sea Wolf Radar director

The radar system on these OPVs includes two BAE Insyte 1802SW I/J-band radar trackers, which provide target illumination for the Seawolf missile system. Same as on the Malaysian Lekiu’s, but very different from the GEC Marconi Type 911 I/Ku-band systems used on Type 22 and 23. So, I fail to see why RN technicians -who would not have much experience with this system – are expected to have little or no problems with the 1802SW.

Brunei OPV’s

The first of these ships was completed in 2003 – thats 6 long years ago and the on-board systems are old hat.!!! They are fitted with a couple of one-off BAe systems ie The Nautis 2 command and control system & Ruston diesels that no other navy uses.
They were also fitted for but not with the latest block of Sea wolf missiles ( not even test fired in 2003). The ships had a crew of 76, mostly operator maintainers. The technical ability of the Brunei technicians was not good and they would have had great difficulty in maintaining the weapons & electronic systems. This is particularly so with the Sea Wolf tracker which is a nightmare for fully trained and experienced RN technicians

It seems Algeria is a serious potential customer for the unwanted corvettes.

Date Posted: 05-Aug-2009

Jane’s Navy International
Algeria looks hard at Brunei’s unwanted OPVs

Richard Scott

Algeria is in the running to acquire three 95 m F2000 offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) built in the UK for the Royal Brunei Navy (RBN) but never put into service, Jane’s has learned.

The three ships, launched in Glasgow in 2001 and 2002 by BAE Systems Surface Fleet Solutions (now part of BVT Surface Fleet), were the subject of a lengthy legal dispute between the shipbuilder and Royal Brunei Technical Services (RBTS).

While the builder insisted that the OPVs met their contract specification, RBTS refused to take delivery on the grounds that they did not meet requirements and withheld final payment on the GBP750 million (USD1.27 billion) contract.

Brunei eventually accepted title to the ships in April 2007 following a protracted arbitration process. However, the vessels remain under care and maintenance at Barrow-in-Furness in England, with Singapore-based Global Naval Systems (GNS), an affiliate of the Lürssen group, appointed as broker by RBTS for their onward sale.

Algiers has been considering procuring new-build frigates, with BVT, DCNS and ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems all tabling offers. However, there are now suggestions that the government is instead considering the OPVs as a first step, a move that would enable the Marine de la Republique Algerienne to acquire a useful interim capability in a shorter timeframe.

It is understood that any deal involving the three vessels would be structured on a twin-track basis: GNS would broker the sale of the ships to Algeria on behalf of the Sultanate of Brunei; while BVT Surface Fleet, as design authority, would negotiate a parallel contract with Algeria for the regeneration and refit of the ships plus an associated programme of support and training.

The F2000 ships, as built for the RBN, feature a BAE Systems Integrated Systems Technologies (Insyte) NAUTIS II command and weapon control system; MBDA VL Seawolf point defence missile system; Oto Melara 76 mm/62 Super Rapid gun, MBDA MM40 Block 2 Exocet anti-ship missiles; two MSI-Defence single 30 mm REMSIG gun mountings; and two sets of triple torpedo tubes.

Sensors include an Insyte AWS-9 surveillance and target indication radar; Ultra Electronics’ System 2500 electro-optical tracking system; Thales Cutlass 242 electronic support measures outfit and Scorpion jammer; and a Thales TMS 4130C1 hull-mounted medium-frequency sonar.

Iraqi navy want them, but currently US are still loth on giving Iraq a full control of it’s own territorial water and airspace.

Malaysian Navy aren’t really interested in a “of the shelf” naval acquisition. the contracts for both the Meko 100 and Frigate Bac 2 specified that the second hull onward must be built locally. Besides, Malaysia are also looking for a longer range Air defence system then seawolf.

What gave you that impression?

The US administration has actively worked to improve Iraqi self sufficiency defending her terratories including coastal defence.

Bringing the Asad class corvettes into service would be an afirmation of that, Iraq doesn’t have the capability to operate them yet pure and simple and they have stated that they would want them at some time. Until then they are in limbo in Le Spezia Italy.

Anyway if Iraq did decide that it wanted to step up to a Corvette capability there are two Assad class sitting in Le Spezia Italy which they technically own. There was some noise in 2005 about releasing them to Iraq but they don’t want them, on the other hand they don’t appear to be keen on allowing Italy to release them for sale which tells me they are hedging their bets at the moment.

Iraqi navy want them, but currently US are still loth on giving Iraq a full control of it’s own territorial water and airspace.

Malaysian Navy aren’t really interested in a “of the shelf” naval acquisition. the contracts for both the Meko 100 and Frigate Bac 2 specified that the second hull onward must be built locally. Besides, Malaysia are also looking for a longer range Air defence system then seawolf.