Naval deployment to Black Sea?

US sends another warship to the Black Sea

US warship arrives in Georgia amid Ukraine crisis

USS Taylor is anchored in the Georgian Black Sea port of Batumi, on May 8, 2014

That’s the same ship that ‘ran aground’ in Turkey some weeks ago, which allowed it to stay in the Black Sea longer than her normal rotation would have been.

US warship arrives in Georgia amid Ukraine crisis

USS Taylor is anchored in the Georgian Black Sea port of Batumi, on May 8, 2014

Russian forums and blogs (at least half serious ones) have all right away laughed at this obvious nonsense.

Actually, all the good Russian mil sites are less full of patriotic flag-waving than most English based ones, on my experience.

Oh deary me!

So we are going to give credence to one uncredited report that seems to have developed within the Russian blogosphere on some minor news aggregation website of Russian origin. The only person that they can get to talk about it the deputy director of some minor Russian think tank?!

Radar screens going blank?!
Ship fleeing to Romanian port?!
27 terrified crew members resigning?!

This article is a joke and a poor one at that, the Russian blogosphere got all excited about one Su24 buzzing an American warship and before you can say “Borscht” all sorts of crazy theories and nationalistic fantasies start spreading across the internet like a plague.

Oh well you have to laugh sometimes.

I’d say this report is as accurate as the one from a couple of weeks ago that stated Russia had downed an RQ-180 over it’s Northern Fleet base.

LOL

It would be interesting how they determined that “And suddenly all the screens went blank.”

Also this statement is questionable:
“equipped with “Aegis”, the most modern system of air and missile defence.”

Compared to the systems in use by the Russian navy today that may be true, but compared to active phased array radars in use by European navies, I am not so sure.

Read also this sentence:
“After the incident, the foreign media reported that “Donald Cook” was rushed into a port in Romania.”

“The foreign media”? Is there something like that, a common non-Russian media? Or did all non-Russian media reported that? Or which one did that? That is primitive rhetoric trick compared to “The experts say that it is like this” – without mentioning, which experts said that. It could be everything from a simple lie to a lazy writer forgetting to quote his sources.

This appears to be primitive propaganda.

Its classic cold war! What really happened was that the screens did go blank for a few seconds, but after that random Putin meme’s showed up on every screen on the ship.

It suggest Aegis target tracking works well only when there is a number of these ships which can coordinate with each other somehow. This is strange: before the Burke class, carrier escort depended on 1 or 2 Ticonderoga’s (these being the only AEGIS ships at the time) and it suggests a lone AEGIS ship is ineffective (which is silly)

However you turn it, the bolded parts are inconsistent: you either jam the radar (in which case the algorithm is already loaded) or you prevent the algorithm from loading (in which case there is nothing to jam).

More importantly it gives information which could only have come from someone on board the ship, the bit about the 27 crew members being traumatised is clearly very silly.

I’d say this report is as accurate as the one from a couple of weeks ago that stated Russia had downed an RQ-180 over it’s Northern Fleet base.

http://indian.ruvr.ru/2014_04_21/Russian-Su-24-scores-off-against-the-American-USS-Donald-Cook-5786/

It seems like there are serious holes in American warship defence ability.

The demonstration was original enough. A bomber without any weapons, but having onboard equipment for jamming enemy radar, worked against a destroyer equipped with “Aegis”, the most modern system of air and missile defence. But this system of mobile location, in this case the ship, has a significant drawback. That is, the target tracking capabilities. They work well when there is a number of these ships which can coordinate with each other somehow. In this case there was just one destroyer. And, apparently, the algorithm of the radar in the “Aegis” system on the destroyer did not load under the influence of jamming by the Su-24.
Read more: http://indian.ruvr.ru/2014_04_21/Russian-Su-24-scores-off-against-the-American-USS-Donald-Cook-5786/

It suggest Aegis target tracking works well only when there is a number of these ships which can coordinate with each other somehow. This is strange: before the Burke class, carrier escort depended on 1 or 2 Ticonderoga’s (these being the only AEGIS ships at the time) and it suggests a lone AEGIS ship is ineffective (which is silly)

However you turn it, the bolded parts are inconsistent: you either jam the radar (in which case the algorithm is already loaded) or you prevent the algorithm from loading (in which case there is nothing to jam).

As for the modernity of AEGIS, it has been around for a while but in different versions (baselines):
•Baseline 2 (CG 52-58) consists of the Vertical Launching System, TOMAHAWK Weapon System, and Anti-Submarine Warfare upgrades.
•Baseline 3 (CG 59-64) includes the AN/SPY-1B radar and AN/UYQ-21 consoles. Baseline 4 (CG 65-73) integrates the AN/UYK-43/44 computers with superset computer programs developed for the DDG 51.
•Baseline 4 is the base Combat System for DDG 51-67.
•Baseline 5 was introduced in FY 1992 ships and includes the Joint Tactical Information Distribution System (JTIDS) Command and Control Processor, Tactical Data Information Link 16, Combat Direction Finding, Tactical Data Information Exchange System, AN/SLQ-32(V)3 Active Electronic Counter Countermeasures, and AEGIS Extended Range (ER) Missile. Baseline 5 was developed in three steps (phases):
Phase I integrated AEGIS ER and supports the missile Initial Operational Capability;
Phase II integrated system upgrades including Deceptive Electronic Countermeasures, Track Load Control algorithms, and Track Initiation Processor;
Phase III integrated JTIDS and the OJ-663 color display Tactical Graphics Capability into the AEGIS Combat System.
•Baseline 6 will be developed in two phases. Baseline 6 Phase I is planned for the last ship in FY 1994, and Phase III is planned for the first ship in FY 1997. Baseline 6 Phase III is the designation for the computer suite resulting from consolidation of the previous Phase II baseline with variations designed to introduce Tactical Ballistic Missile Defense (TBMD) and Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC) in in-service ships. Baseline 6 upgrades will include embarked helicopters, Fiber Optics as applied to Data Multiplexing System (DMS), implementation of affordability initiatives, the Radar Set Controller Environmental Simulator (RSCES) and Battle Force Tactical Trainer (BFTT), Advanced Display System, Evolved SEA SPARROW Missile (ESSM), Identification (ID) upgrades Phase I, Advanced TOMAHAWK Weapon Control System (ATWCS) Phase II, Fire Control System upgrades, and the Joint Maritime Command Information System (JMCIS).
•Baseline 7 will also be developed in two phases. Baseline 7 Phase I is planned for the last ship in FY 1998 and Phase II is planned for the last ship in FY 2002. Major Baseline 7 upgrades include but are not limited to: AN/SPY-1D(V) radar upgrade, integration of Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC) and Tactical Ballistic Missile Defense (TBMD) capability (first forward fit implementation), advanced computer architecture, ID upgrades Phase II, Cueing Sensor, STANDARD Missile-2 Block IIIB full integration, Advanced Integrated Electronic Warfare System (AIEWS) Phase I and II, Light Airborne Multipurpose System (LAMPS) helicopter Mark III Block II, Advanced Tactical Support, integrated Naval Surface Fire Support (NSFS), and Mark 50 torpedo with Periscope Depth Attack.
http://navysite.de/weapons/aegis.htm

See also http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/aegis.html

US warship USS Donald-Cook sailed through the Bosphorus in Istanbul, Turkey, on April 10, 2014, en route to the Black Sea
On April 14 a russian fighter flies provocatively close to USS Donald Cook

140207-N-UE577-029. Atlantic Ocean, February 7 2014, Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer USS Donald Cook (DDG 75) prepares to moor at Funchal, Portugal for a routine refueling on her way to Rota, Spain. Donald Cook is underway en route to Rota, as the first of four Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers to be stationed in Rota. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Andrew B. Church.
140326-N-KE519-002. Mediterranean Sea, March 26 2014, Cmdr. Charles Hampton, executive officer of the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Donald Cook (DDG 75), mans the bridge during exercise Noble Dina.
140331-N-KE519-009. Mediterranean Sea, March 31 2014, Seaman Maurice Walls steers the ship while standing the helmsman watch aboard the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Donald Cook (DDG 75), in support of exercise Noble Dina, an annual multi-national training exercise conducted with the Hellenic and Israeli navies.
140414-N-KE519-048. [U]Constanta, Romania, April 14 2014[/U], sailors assigned to the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Donald Cook (DDG 75) salute Romanian President Traian Basescu during his visit to the ship.
140421-N-KE519-007. Black Sea, April 20 2014, the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Donald Cook (DDG 75) transits the Black Sea.
140427-N-KE519-015. Haifa, Israel, April 27 2014, the forward-deployed Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Donald Cook (DDG 75) approaches Haifa, Israel, for a scheduled port visit.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/01075.htm

Don’t look like they even blinked.

Port visit in Romania was scheduled
14 Apr 14 USS Donald Cook DDG 75 Constanta –
See more at: http://www.seawaves.com/navcall_old/2014/april2014.asp#sthash.paMN82B2.dpuf

According to the nice SeaWaves people there will be

a)BlackSeaFor international naval exercise for Apr 15th with ships from Russia, Bulgaria, Romania and Turkey attending at Sevastopol

b)Russian Navy Days event at Sevastopol on July 27th !!! 12 ships open to the public…

http://www.seawaves.com/portvisits.asp

With current geopolitical stress levels over in Crimea wouldthese events still happen?

Coments,

Hammer

RFS Moskva 121
RFS Smetliviy 810
RFS Kerch 713
RFS Ladniy 801
RFS Pytliviy 808
RFS Azov 151
RFS Yamal 156
RFS Alrosa 554
RFS Turbinist 912
RFS Kovrovets 913
RFS Kasimov 055
RFS Vladimirets 060

more at: http://www.seawaves.com/portvisits.asp#sthash.JbJcBkKN.dpuf

No foreign ships.

It would be interesting how they determined that “And suddenly all the screens went blank.” 😉

Also this statement is questionable:
“equipped with “Aegis”, the most modern system of air and missile defence.”

Compared to the systems in use by the Russian navy today that may be true, but compared to active phased array radars in use by European navies, I am not so sure.

Read also this sentence:
“After the incident, the foreign media reported that “Donald Cook” was rushed into a port in Romania.”

“The foreign media”? Is there something like that, a common non-Russian media? Or did all non-Russian media reported that? Or which one did that? That is primitive rhetoric trick compared to “The experts say that it is like this” – without mentioning, which experts said that. It could be everything from a simple lie to a lazy writer forgetting to quote his sources.

This appears to be primitive propaganda.

http://indian.ruvr.ru/2014_04_21/Russian-Su-24-scores-off-against-the-American-USS-Donald-Cook-5786/

It seems like there are serious holes in American warship defence ability.

Believe it or not JSR even professors can be fools who write total garbage.The possible re-routing of gas pipes by Russia is not dependent on how many subs Turkey has in the Black sea as the the prof would have us believe

I would not consider Israel professors as fool. the most technological advanced startup nation.
rerouting gas line will create severe problem for Turkey as Russia will be free to bomb other pipelines thus increasing gas prices and creating Ukraine kind bankruptcy in all other countries of blacksea.
by that time Russia would have built alliance with Arabs, Jews, Persian, Orthodox. with complete encirclement of Turkey. this predictions are very safe to make.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2012&mm=11&dd=28&nav_id=83374

the writer is professor.

Believe it or not JSR even professors can be fools who write total garbage.The possible re-routing of gas pipes by Russia is not dependent on how many subs Turkey has in the Black sea as the the prof would have us believe

Oh lord…..

I see where you get some of your opinions from now JSR. This op-ed piece is one of the most accomplished piles of gash I’ve seen in a while. The author notes that the Turk Navy can only achieve parity with the Black Sea fleet (ignoring the critical imbalance in subs of 11 – 1 in the Turkish favour) if it uses its whole fleet. Using its whole fleet in this context means a day or two’s sailing through the straits…its not much of a logistic challenge. Where does the Black Sea fleet reinforce from?. Vladivostok?. Murmansk?.

We best leave alone comments of how the Ukraine have effectively handed over 11 ‘major naval units’ when the only major modern combatant in their fleet was alongside in Odessa last I heard and the Black Sea Fleet’s prizes, in fact, number a couple of 30yr old missile boats in dubious materiel condition and more doubtful combat potential.

There are at least 6 contributors here, without thinking, that could produce a far more credible piece than this…difference is that they wouldn’t arrive at the same conclusion…because its twaddle!.

the writer is professor. there is no reason for him to write it without substance. he has to maintain his reputation in academia considering as competitive as in Israel. Ukraine is just side show. once Russia built two more pipelines. it will behave very differently with countries like Turkey and Middleast.
Turks limited budget did not simply allow to operate more than 1 sub at a time. and than consider the poor competence in so many fields. highly doubtfull that subs can survive for too long.

Not to mention there are many factual errors. Whole point of adding VLSs to perry class frigates in GENESIS upgrade is the integration of ESSM.

And people still fail to understand what happened regarding the cancellation about MILGEM and domestic LPD project. Its the contract to *shipyard* that has been cancelled, NOT the projects themselves. In Tuzla region, there are currently 29 shipyards actively building ships. RMK Marine is just one of them. With 50000 tons weight and 180m length capacity RMK is neither largest, or in anyway special for construction of MILGEM ships. Largest shipyard in Tuzla region the Tuzla Shipyard have 109000 tons and 350m length capacity, for example. Its simply a matter of time the bidding will go to another shipyard, and the production will go on. Worst comes to worst, TSK has its own military shipyard in Gölcük that can easily construct those ships.

Israeli analyst think that Turkey will come under increasing pressure.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Turkey-vulnerable-to-rising-Russian-power-in-the-Black-Sea-349928

I see where you get some of your opinions from now JSR. This op-ed piece is one of the most accomplished piles of gash I’ve seen in a while. The author notes that the Turk Navy can only achieve parity with the Black Sea fleet (ignoring the critical imbalance in subs of 11 – 1 in the Turkish favour) if it uses its whole fleet. Using its whole fleet in this context means a day or two’s sailing through the straits…its not much of a logistic challenge. Where does the Black Sea fleet reinforce from?. Vladivostok?. Murmansk?.

We best leave alone comments of how the Ukraine have effectively handed over 11 ‘major naval units’ when the only major modern combatant in their fleet was alongside in Odessa last I heard and the Black Sea Fleet’s prizes, in fact, number a couple of 30yr old missile boats in dubious materiel condition and more doubtful combat potential.

There are at least 6 contributors here, without thinking, that could produce a far more credible piece than this…difference is that they wouldn’t arrive at the same conclusion…because its twaddle!.

Israeli analyst think that Turkey will come under increasing pressure.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Turkey-vulnerable-to-rising-Russian-power-in-the-Black-Sea-349928

According to the nice SeaWaves people there will be

a)BlackSeaFor international naval exercise for Apr 15th with ships from Russia, Bulgaria, Romania and Turkey attending at Sevastopol

b)Russian Navy Days event at Sevastopol on July 27th !!! 12 ships open to the public…

http://www.seawaves.com/portvisits.asp

With current geopolitical stress levels over in Crimea wouldthese events still happen?

Coments,

Hammer

RMK shipyards are owned by Koç Holding. During gezi incidents, Koç holding opened up their Divan Hotel to protesters and supported the anti-goverment protests. Now the goverment wants to take multi billion $ bidding away from the Koç Holding. In short: You know nothing about our internal matters. I accept there is corruption in govement and some moronic Islamist guys still supports the goverment them despite the corruption. More, there are billions of religious and social problems in Turkey I would complain about.

dysfunctional governments are usually responsible for military defeats.

However, this is a military discussion, and all of these are irrelevant. According to any and all sources you can find on the internet, we still maintain 3000+ tanks in active service, we still maintain around 400 combat aircraft in active service, along with the Navy units I mentioned 50 times. We still do maintain our cold war numbers, and we don’t need this kind of army only to protect ourselves from Greece or Syria or anything. If we had slightest trouble maintaning our armed forces, we could have easily shrinked our army to 400 tanks and airforce 200 combat aircraft just like any EU country did, but we choose not to. Also, I’ve provided independent sources that both prove we have 18b$ military budget, and that is ever increasing from year to year. If you have problems believing in any of this, the problem is really you.

3000 tanks and 400 combat not for first day war against top tier rival. you will be luck to deploy one fourth of that in active combat and much less in sustain support. you simply don’t have that deep airbase infrastructure that can be operational from cruise/billistic missile attacks. your complete import depended country from finances to energy. on top of that 30 to 40 percent of population that can rise up for right price.

I will repeat myself; Everything you say irrelevant to these discussions. You run theories and they are wrong, thats it. You make Russian propoganda, by denying even the FACTs that Russians accept. So all you do is losing your credibility.

theories that are wrong. show me my single predictions that has proven wrong.

Stupid and childish comment and I wont enter into pissing contest. However i will have say these;
1-Russians dont even have 1000 air delivered antiship missiles in their inventory; In fact, only Tu-22M3 and Su-34s are capable of delivering dedicated anti-ship missiles. Other than that; some upgraded Su-24 and Su-27/30s provide Kh-31A.

have you looked at tactical missile corporations revenues and that revenues is understatement for true quantities produces for Ruaf. even downgraded export models Kh-31PMK/AD has more than 200km range.

2-Flankers cannot carry ANY antiship/antiradar missiles. Only upgraded ones, which is less than 1/3rd of the Su-27 fleet.

there are 30 to40 Su-34 in service. and that fleet in single take off can rain down close to 300 Antiship/Anti radiation missiles. They carry 50% more payload and much wider radar than Flanker. the first step of war is suppression of radar and communication network and than energy infrastructure.
those useless ships with short range subsonic missiles have no relevance.

see the 2008. Russia does not want to stop oil supply to Turkey as favor. as Turkey is very loyal customer of Russian energy and BP was part of TNK-BP.

http://www.rferl.org/content/Georgia_Russia_Conflict_Changes_Energy_Equation/1194496.html
Pierre Noel, an energy expert at the European Council, points out the strategic difference for Russia between the two export routes. The Russians, Noel says, “always want people to believe they have a limited agenda, so they bombed the railway that brings Azeri oil to Georgia, and BP has been forced to stop its shipments of Azeri oil to Georgia by rail because the bridge has been bombed. But they wouldn’t bomb a pipeline which is not directly linked to supplying Georgia.” That, Noel says, would give the West justification to accuse Russia of aggression against the West or the region beyond Georgia itself

incase of Russia against Turkey. You will not even get Oil and money from Arab countries. bankruptcy in hours. forget about rest of the world coming to rescue.

3-I am sure Hitler said Napoleon’s history lesson about invasion of Russia did not apply too. “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” is a really nice quote.

those days are over. there is not much willing population for such adventures. It is now supercomputers/software/precision engineering/high paid and train troops that decide it.

By the way some another fact; Tatar Turks which constitute the 12% population of Crimea is now represented in Crimean Parliament by 20%. Each individual Turk in Crimea gets almost double representitive rights of a Russian. (1.6 per person vs 0,9 per person). I am 100% confident your RT will fail to mention this, as -almost certainly- will rest of the world media, but we certainly got what we want :stupid: Have fun proving your theories.

short term inducements to pacify and disarm the society for long term bending.