New Airshow Feasibility

………. He mentioned the show being at Aveley so I suspect that it was actually Damyns Hall. Sounded like he had really enjoyed the show and was doing a good job in persuading them it was worth a visit………..

We went there a couple of years ago, it was a really good day out.

http://www.militaryandflyingmachines.org.uk/

Return to the grass-roots

Goodness, that was a lot of words on one subject. I did read every word of every posting as this is something close to my heart.

It looks like the “air show” has come full circle now, starting from the days of titillating barn-storming and tied-aerobatics. Similarly to those days each show consists of the same familiar “acts” which tramp around the air show “circuit” each year.

I think that the future for enthusiasts will be a return to small societies organising focused micro-shows like the Bruntingthorpe runs or Old Warden. Minimal publicity, a simple agenda and no commentators. Just enthusiasts and aeroplanes. If it’d bore the kids, leave them at home.

( Though, of course, it helps if those are at least accessible to the people who are interested in attending, rather than hidden away on former prison sites. )

So to the OP: a “mass-market” event featuring some aeroplanes might well break even, but don’t expect any enthusiasts to attend or care. I haven’t been to a big show since the final Great Warbirds.

I haven’t been through all of this discussion so my apologies if I’m repeating anything. As discussed the wings & wheels concept has something to be said for it. Also consider what race courses are doing and put on a band in the evening. I believe from what has been done close to where I live that the glider that goes with the Twister duo does night flights with pyros attached. That would be a good way to finish with the fireworks following. Now if you can get permission for a night attack with afterburners firing up the fuel behind!

One certain very rich person connected with a computing empire has today given 600 million to charity for third world aid.Very noble but what could we do with poeople like him just donating 10 % of that figure to supporting aviation and heritage in the UK this would generate more income and also employment for many and create more money for good causes.Likewise this would benifit other countries in a similar way with investment there.people in such a strong financial position should be encouraged to re invest in the society that put them where they are financialy

Mike E

www.whirlwindfighterproject.org

From a purely selfish point of view I would like the following:-

Good exit from the car park. The getting in isn’t a problem as most people turn up at an airshow between 0800 and 1300. But getting out….90% will go at once. You can have the best show going, but if the only thing people on the forums are complain about is the getting out, then you’ve lost !!!

I agree. I remember going to an end of season display at Duxford some years ago. Plenty of people helping you to park and take your money. When it was time to go………..there was nobody helping with the traffic.

This is the sort of thing that people remember.

With any event, you are going to need huge numbers of volunteers to help with all sorts of things. Not to mention the Health and Safety requirements, and insurances. I certainly don’t envy anyone organising a display.

I think Graham Adlam has a great idea and the bottle to go for it. Anyone here wanting to support something in the southwest should contact him on this forum.

Taunton 11th/12th June 2011.

Spitfires, Hurricanes, Tanks, historic vehicles and re-enacted battles, etc

Anyone here with a posh speaking voice would be welcome for PA commentries and announcements apply within.:)

cheers
Baz

Just a thought for a Northern venue…..

Elvington suffered due to the influx of non-paying visitors to the north of the airfield…… Leeming wouldn’t!

Big runway, big static area, usually quiet RAF station… It would be as good as, if not better than Linton on Ouse as a venue.

The Northern Aviators may toy with the idea of a full blown airshow at Eshott in the next few years….

I would support that one !!!

Mike E
www.whirlwindfighterproject.org

Just a thought for a Northern venue…..

Elvington suffered due to the influx of non-paying visitors to the north of the airfield…… Leeming wouldn’t!

Big runway, big static area, usually quiet RAF station… It would be as good as, if not better than Linton on Ouse as a venue.

The Northern Aviators may toy with the idea of a full blown airshow at Eshott in the next few years….

The Wings and Wheels theme does have the advantage of possibly appealing to two markets but I believe that many enthusiasts have overlapping interests anyway and many of those that would go to a mixed event would also be likely to go to a good individual air show or car event anyway.
I think it would be extremely difficult to arrange a combined car event with a car racing element unless it was held at a licenced race circuit simply because a race event would have to have a MSA licence and it would be difficult and expensive to acheive the safety standards needed to get a licence for a temporary circuit and you would also need trained race marshalls for flagging and to deal with any accidents. The rental costs to take over a licnced circuit for a weekend would make that option a complete non starter as well. A mixed event with high speed car demonstration runs make more sense from the costs angle but I doubt it would have the same attraction for many potential punters as an event featuring racing.
It is also worth bearing in mind that when I had a shop at Brands Hatch about 20 years ago the circuit discontinued their annual mixed racing and airshow weekend due to poor attendance. They also had to make South Bank a no go area to the public for the weekend to meet CAA rules on display aircraft overflying the crowd line which restricted the crowd numbers that the circuit was able to accommodate.
Events like Flying Legends are unique and attract people from all over the world. I doubt most would attend a second warbird show in the UK and the ordinary public generally expect more than “just a load of old fighters”.
Any modern airshow (with the exception of special places like Old Warden) needs a mix of modern and vintage types to attract the ordinary public. The public generally have a short attention span and huge expectations of the organisers ability to entertain them and even the best airshow will not hold their attention for an entire afternoon so you need other ground attractions to keep them amused/entertained hence the X factor celebrity appearance at RIAT.
At a time when money is short and petrol prices high I would not even contemplate trying to put on a new airshow but I take my hat off to anyone who manages to make one a success.

Very interesting thread and a few trends here.

Very tempting to look back at history and to remember how good a show was and wish it would come back. Also tempting to want to have a good show in your own neck of the woods and also tempting to have an airshow that has exactly the aircraft that you want to see.

IMHO Airshows are like any other product, they have to move with the times. The market moves on and develops and anyone who wants to sell any product needs to move with (or even better anticipate) the market rather than go backwards.

Its a hard fact to swallow for many enthusiats (including myself) but I am a firm beleiver that the big money is with the family market. Society has become more “child centric” over the last couple of decades with parents willing to spend more and more on their kids.

Its not a coincedence that RIAT have booked an X-Factor star to perform this year. They know that is a market to move into. I dont agree with it as a punter (in fact it keeps me away) but I completely understand why they are doing this from a hard nosed business perspective.

Despite the recession, I am still convinced there is a significant potential spend within the familly market if the product is right. Just look at the entrance prices for Legoland or dads taking their kids to Premier Football.

Thats not to say that successful airshows have to be giant tat sales and funfairs. I think that there are opportunities to tie in with other styles of events (the Wings and wheels theme is a good example)

Linked to this is the issue of cash flow. I have recently helped create a charity event at Dunsfold where people paid £25 to ride in a Supercar around the Top Gear Track.This raised around £35,000 last year for a kids charity but the beauty was that 90% of the tickets were sold in advance so the cashflow was wonderful and the financial risks were mitigated.

Needs more thought, time for a Rich Tea…..:)

HASAW had not even been thought of then.

It would be interesting to know just what percentage of the overall costs nowadays are because of “new” rulings by Health & Safety as compared with, say , 1975.

I suspect that , allowing for inflation, it is mostly H & S(along with rocketing insurance because of the litigatious world we now have) that has caused these events to leap up in costs.

I did a number of the very early Greenham Common airshows. I took formal Leave of Absence from my Govt employer to participate in the airshow as a qualified, professional, meteorologist. We “borrowed” a lot of Met kit to do our job. We were insured (as individuals), by the airshow, for some vast amounts of money – just in case we put some aeronaut down in Aldermaston, or Burghfield! We all worked very hard, over long hours. But it was good fun. HASAW had not even been thought of then. We made it up as we went along – “Common Sense” was the watchword. I think Tim Prince will (give or take a bit!) concur.
So – do not even think about it. We all have to reduce national expenditure. Fripparies like airshows are, regretfully, way, way, down the list of “Things of Importance”!!
HTH – but, yet again, I know it won’t!
Resmoroh

As a person that has been going to Airshows for many many years ,i often wonder why some of these very popular shows packed up ,the Fighter Meet at North Weald ? some people say it was Epping council as they had a large loss because of the market stall income was lost ,i think it was the Policing costs ,it was always over policed ,The Rochester Airshow another example ,everybody decided to watch the show from outside in the high street ,they said never again as they lost 20,000 pounds of their own money over it ,so i was told ,what about the Shepway Airshow ,folkstone ,thats no longer here ,anyone know why that packed up ? that was a very good show ?

cheers Terry

Have you considered Scotland?

With Leuchars closing, we won’t have a ‘big’ show anymore. Perth and East Fortune have small events but that’s it – and we have to go a long way south for any alternatives.

Alternatively, what about Carlisle Airport as a base? They have just had the Radio 1 Big Weekend so can handle crowds, parking and congestion.

Something for the southwest would be nice.

Perhaps somehow a combination of air rally and air show with reasonable entry prices.

Personally, I would rather see a large static show of warbirds (old and new), plus the opportunity to wander along the flight line coupled with a modest actual flying display (2 -3 hours is a good time) …rather than an endless flying display/high prices and limited access.

Sywell’s Display was 3hrs last year and the whole event cost £60K plus to put on, if you want to call that modest!
Whatever you do you need good people to help you, you need someone to back it financialy and take the risk. And then you need the sun to shine!!

From a purely selfish point of view I would like the following:-

Good exit from the car park. The getting in isn’t a problem as most people turn up at an airshow between 0800 and 1300. But getting out….90% will go at once. You can have the best show going, but if the only thing people on the forums are complain about is the getting out, then you’ve lost !!!

A good selection of aircraft. Duford has Legends, RIAT and Waddington the fast noisy stuff, Abingdon the ‘first’ of the year. What would be your Unique Selling Point ? I don’t like the idea of just 1 major headline act, especially as some go U/S on the day (again, it’s beyond your control but people don’t see it that way)

Ticket pricing. Personally I pay what I think is about right for the types of aircraft on show. I wouldn’t pay RIAT prices for an Abingdon ticket, but overall I think that most airshows have got their prices right.

Matt

Topcliffe

Topcliffe…. Now there is a good thought!! I don’t think there has been an airshow there since the 1970’s??

I was involved with the first couple of Elvington events but politics etc have caused problems but yes it is an ideal location.many years ago I on an annual basis we used to spend 10 days every year moving lock stock and barrel to a temporary camp site on a wind swept aerodrome and converting it for a two day airshow. The show was Great War Birds I along with Peter Smith used to run the ground support side of things.Laying out the airfield,fencing,car parks,toilets,bins,ground crews etc. Very tired at the end of it but went back for more until we finished off at Wroughton. The ground support is the most important part of the show and mainly unseen and unknown but an event dont happen without it.

A location Ideal would be Woodford for the North of England or possibly try to get one of the dormant RAF stations. Church Fenton for one would be really ideal as its down to not much more than a university unit and ATC. Topcliffe would be another possible if the Army would give permission for access not going via their bit. Dishforth right next to the A! /A19 interchange three runways ATC the lot only a few helicopters in the hangars now that if the army ever moved out could be the Duxford of the North !!!!!.Plus we have a lot of cockpits etc,and interesting aircraft north of Birmingham so we could have a damn interesting and interactive static park !!!

I digress sorry

but if you ever want any experienced guys for the ground crew ,airfield set up let us know.We also used to organise the mini shows at Manchester Barton including the one we sadly lost the mossie at.Now they got done on a mini budget.

Mike E
www.whirlwindfighterproject.org

Something for the southwest would be nice.

Perhaps somehow a combination of air rally and air show with reasonable entry prices.

Personally, I would rather see a large static show of warbirds (old and new), plus the opportunity to wander along the flight line coupled with a modest actual flying display (2 -3 hours is a good time) …rather than an endless flying display/high prices and limited access.

It is important to have a good team behind you.

You have to appeal to the whole family. Abingdon covers that but it costs £56,000 just to run it. [figure taken from the 2011 programme]. That cost includes the fee to DE for the airfield and after the hassles of recent years there has been times where they have wondered “Is it worth it?” but they keep on raising the money for the local Air Ambulance. The first event cost just £1000 but the event was very small and backed by an individual.

It is the only airshow I go to and that is because I “work” it.

Best of luck if you want to run one.

Manston for me – loads of space at an underused airfield and far enough away from the London Airports to avoid air space conflict. But then I wouild say Manston, wouldn’t I?;) I like the combination of Wings and Wheels, as well.