Brit remains confident he’ll land vintage aircraft
City delays decision on Mosquito’s fate
By Richard Cuthbertson, Calgary Herald January 11, 2011
The British collector who wants to acquire a Calgary-owned vintage aircraft says he’s confident the de Havilland Mosquito will eventually be his, despite the continued push to keep the plane in this city.
Peter Vacher, a U.K. aviation buff, says in exchange for the Mosquito. he would restore a city-owned Second World War Hawker Hurricane and return it to Calgary.
He would also provide more than $900,000 for an endowment fund.
His comments come as council on Monday delayed a vote on the fate of its Mosquito until next month in favour of allowing one alderman with a keen interest in aircraft to gather more advice on restoration best practices.
Still, Vacher faces an uphill battle. That’s because a council committee last month recommended both aircraft be kept in Calgary and that $800,000 be ponied up to pay for the restoration — contingent on matching funds being found by the group selected to do the project.
But there could well be another significant question facing the potential sale of the Mosquito overseas. Canadian Heritage, a federal government department, confirms this particular Mosquito is subject to export control under the Cultural Property Export and Import Act.
Some say this could pose barriers if the sale abroad is completed and the aircraft faces exportation.
Mayor Naheed Nenshi said in an interview his understanding is “it is absolutely not a given that such a licence would be granted.”
Nenshi supports handing over the reins to a group of local volunteers but questions why the committee is recommending they get $800,000, when the group said it could raise all the money necessary.
But Vacher said exporting the aircraft would be subject to certain rules, but his understanding is that “once the investigation was completed, they would be unlikely to raise any objections because it is not a unique artifact to Canada.”
A group of aircraft enthusiasts, called the Calgary Mosquito Society, has been lobbying to keep the Mosquito in this city. They say they can raise the money and restore both aircraft.
But Vacher said he is still keen to “rescue” the Mosquito and also wants to see the Hurricane restored.
“In my view, there’s been too much emotion in all this,” he said in a phone interview.
The Mosquito was built in 1946 in Britain and then sent to Canada, where it was used for mapping in the North. The Hurricane was flown on reconnaissance missions off the West Coast during the Second World War.
Ald. Gord Lowe asked Monday for a decision on the airplanes to be delayed until Feb. 14, giving him more time to get answers to the restoration question.
He is also against spending $800,000 on the two aircraft as recommended by the committee.
“I’m adamantly opposed to that. I don’t think this is a proper use of taxpayers money,” he said.
[email]rcuthbertson@calgaryherald.com[/email]
By: Tom H - 16th January 2011 at 16:28
Also to address the question of the great vastness in Canada and the chances of many Canadians being lucky enough to see Bob Jens Mosquito fly let alone RS700, how about a clause in the contract stating RS700 should return to Alberta at some stage to tour the area giving many other Canadians a chance to see this great plane fly over their state again?
Dave
Appreciate the point you are making…but, as some of us have been advocating, a broader national plan for aviation heritage needs to be adopted for all Canadians…but that is a subject for another thread.
Tom
By: Tom H - 16th January 2011 at 16:25
What a shame that Canada couldn’t have drummed up the relatively small amount required to save the last example of the biggest aircraft ever made in Canada, the CC-106 Yukon at Guyaquil. Not as glamorous as a Mosquito, I guess.
I agree and a valiant attempt was made.
The biggest problem with the Yukon was not the recovery, but where to display, restore and maintain it. I can appreciate the problem as our 737 is a strain to keep conserved and safe…the Yukon would be an order harder.
In spite of that we did take a hard look at trying to assist or take it on ourselves.
I am amazed the National did not get more involved.
Tom
By: Tom H - 16th January 2011 at 16:23
Actually, I’d say most Canadians are within several hundred kilometers of these two places.
Well not to belabor a point, quick search on the net, but to make my point.
Canadian POP 34,000,000 or close enough
Ontario POP 13,000,000 or close enough
The closest edge of Manitoba and the far side of Quebec are near enough to 1000km to call it that…never mind the North, West and Maritimes.
On this point…
“Perhaps some outside the box thinking is required. Two major restoration locations in Canada are Vintage Wings and Canadian Warplane Heritage. Perhaps it should be sent to one of those places for restoration(based on donations and/or Calgary money or something worked out as a partnership). Then once complete, the aircraft is flyable and alternates years in the east and in the west for all of us to see.”
Would be far preferable to the aircraft leaving the country.
Tom
By: WE724 - 16th January 2011 at 11:20
I have read this thread with great interest and can see both sides of the topic, my opinion is if PV or anybody else can come to an agreement with the museum on a contract to purchase RS700, restore the museums Hurricane XII, and put enough money into the Museums account that secures the long term existance of that museum for future generations and all is done above board to Canadian law i see this as a good deal for all parties.
As part of the sale perhaps painting RS700 in a Canadian squadron Bomber Command scheme would be a good idea? To honour all those crews that flew Mossies and those who gave their lives in doing so?
Also to address the question of the great vastness in Canada and the chances of many Canadians being lucky enough to see Bob Jens Mosquito fly let alone RS700, how about a clause in the contract stating RS700 should return to Alberta at some stage to tour the area giving many other Canadians a chance to see this great plane fly over their state again?
Dave
By: markb - 16th January 2011 at 03:16
What a shame that Canada couldn’t have drummed up the relatively small amount required to save the last example of the biggest aircraft ever made in Canada, the CC-106 Yukon at Guyaquil. Not as glamorous as a Mosquito, I guess.
By: buzzbeurling - 16th January 2011 at 03:05
Mike J
And while its wonderful that the National and Vintage Wings have been able to add these aircraft they are 3-4000km away from me and thousands of km away from most Canadians.
Actually, I’d say most Canadians are within several hundred kilometers of these two places.
Perhaps some outside the box thinking is required. Two major restoration locations in Canada are Vintage Wings and Canadian Warplane Heritage. Perhaps it should be sent to one of those places for restoration(based on donations and/or Calgary money or something worked out as a partnership). Then once complete, the aircraft is flyable and alternates years in the east and in the west for all of us to see.
Just an idea.
By: Tom H - 16th January 2011 at 00:04
Not sure this airplane is such a great example. To the best of my knowledge it was not exported from Canada. It was rebuilt in North Dakota and spent most of the time after it was flying in his hanger in North Dakota. It was registered with the FAA not the CAA when Bob sold it. It was NOT an exRCAF machine so only things Canadian about it were paint scheme and the nationality of the gentleman that owned/restored it.
I guess that was my point…if not the best example.
There was no issue because it did not have a Canadian History, Corsair “Alberta Blue” or P-51 “Whats up Doc” would be similar examples.
None of them had a “Canadian Heritage” therefore unaffected by Heritage Laws.
Importing and Exporting warbirds, to the largest extent, is not affected by Canadian Heritage Laws, sadly, because so few aircraft remain in Canada with a Canadian Heritage!
This is why protecting those that do has become so important.
Tom
By: warbirdnerd - 15th January 2011 at 22:02
Bruce
With rare exception this does not impede the trade of warbirds…a good example would be that of Bob Mays “City of Winnipeg”” Mustang. An aircaft he built over time from parts around the world (it was a beautiful aircraft) and even though it was in Canadian colours when he choose to sell it due to his own issues there was no question of it’s being exported as it did not have an important Canadian history.
Tom
Not sure this airplane is such a great example. To the best of my knowledge it was not exported from Canada. It was rebuilt in North Dakota and spent most of the time after it was flying in his hanger in North Dakota. It was registered with the FAA not the CAA when Bob sold it. It was NOT an exRCAF machine so only things Canadian about it were paint scheme and the nationality of the gentleman that owned/restored it.
By: Tom H - 15th January 2011 at 17:06
The ‘fair trade’ has brought some significant aeroplanes to Canada in recent years. A restored Bf109F and one of only 3 airworthy Bristol F2bs on the planet to Ottawa, the Potter collection (mostly imports from the US and UK), several Fireflies (from Australia and Ethiopia), a couple of Sea Furies.
As others have mentioned, free trade largely benefits all. The major collection in Canada has added a pair of very significant airframes, an active private collection that is seen by millions annually has brought in more types of significance to the country, two museums have examples of an ex-RCN fighter previously extinct in the country, and another example of a later mark has been restored to fly again.
A little churlish to begrudge the possible departure of an airframe that has remained in storage, largely unloved, certainly unrestored, for many years.
Mike J
At what cost have these airframes returned? How many have been lost?
You’ll note that none of the airframes returned are true Canadian Heritage aircraft and all can be resold/traded with out a problem because of that.
And while its wonderful that the National and Vintage Wings have been able to add these aircraft they are 3-4000km away from me and thousands of km away from most Canadians.
A factor that many in the conversation seem to not recognize our history’s are for all citizens of our countries…. Canada is 6000km + wide! and darn near as deep.
So sorry but telling me about 2-3 aircraft added to collections on the other side of the country comes up short in comparison to what has been lost and what you are asking to be given up without a fight.
And why has Mr. Potter so graciously had to import aircraft from the UK, USA and NZ to get what is a representation of Canada’s aviation history? Because its gone in the times before the Heritage laws existed for the most part!
As far as the airframe in question…it has a real Canadian heritage, not a representation and the circumstances (as I described to Bruce) are much more complicated than your post implies.
Sorry if I am getting a little harsh on this but seems some think their history is more important than mine or it is at least being put across that way.
Tom
By: pagen01 - 15th January 2011 at 17:00
Sorry:o
By: David Burke - 15th January 2011 at 16:58
I am refering to F.8 WE925 which I believe to be a spares source for the flyer.
By: pagen01 - 15th January 2011 at 16:30
You sure about that DB? VZ467 always looked in rude good health to me when she was apearing at airshows in the late 1990s early 2000s!
By: David Burke - 15th January 2011 at 16:20
The Meteor exported to Temora was a F.8 that was in bits in the U.K for years and was an aborted return to flight.
By: cypherus - 15th January 2011 at 15:08
To Fly or not.
Oh Dear Politicians and Airplanes really do not mix do they.
If in the end the deal hinges on were the rebuild takes place then let it be were the owner can best accomplish this and not allow anything to stand in the way of the restoration of these airframes particularly political rhetoric and chest beating.
By: StevSmar - 15th January 2011 at 14:14
Lets just hope that all the interest in these two aircraft results in both of them being restored, regardless of whether the Mosquito is restored in the UK or Canada.
(My own bias here is of course my desire to see the Hurricane restored….)
Regards,
By: scotavia - 15th January 2011 at 12:13
Free trade of items is the best way because the buyer often has resources to restore.
I suggest that some thought be given to what a museum is aiming for. If as it should be to engage and interest the wider public then a static airframe added to other static airframes does not always equal more visitors.Funds spent on a lengthy restoration might be better used for interactive ,audiovisual displays plus paying for really keen guides to add the story to exhibits. Like many i have watched at Hendon when visitors drift past very significant aircraft in one minute such as the Lanc where as the AV Lanc in Canberra has a very much higher impact.
Even replicas have an important place and large scale models if space is limited.
By: Bruce - 15th January 2011 at 11:40
I am aware of the airworthy Meteor being the F8 at Temora, I’m not sure of the second non-airworthy one?
There was a T7 exported to Temora a few years ago. I forget who owned it, but he was once the owner of the Canberra now at Temora.
I think it’s used for spares only.
I’d rather that than another one mouldering away over here!
Bruce
By: EN830 - 15th January 2011 at 11:39
Peter, Peter!
Oh dear, we might have come to an understanding here, but by mentioning ‘F’ Freddie, we have thrown it all open again!
Bruce
Slight diversification, I have a log book of one of the 105 Sqn pilots who flew F for Freddie during the war !!!
By: Tom H - 15th January 2011 at 04:49
Spartan flew only one F-5/P-38…As I recall now owned by the Commemorative Airforce, I may be wrong due to the hour of day but do not believe Spartan operated the B-25 for photo mapping for the North.
They did operate the Lockheed Vega Ventura (PV-1) but finding another one of those makes looking for a Mossie a cake walk.
Mind you they did (for a limited time) operate a Sea Hornet as well.
In any event the Mossie operated from both Calgary and Edmonton in Alberta during the mapping making it not only relevant to Canada but to Calgary as well.
But this examples history here is as a mapping aircraft and is currently stored with the Spartan Mods AFAIK.
And it begs the question which comes up with Lancasters from time to time…
Does every Lancaster need to be in WW2 colours when it did so much more that is never recognized?
Don’t get me wrong…Yes we must continue to recognize and remember the efforts of those that served in WW2 (my father was a Lancaster Pilot and my Mother an RAF parachute packer/rigger), but to the exclusion of all else?
Tom
By: J Boyle - 15th January 2011 at 03:44
I guess my point is that we need balance. In the Mosquito ‘big picture’, Mapping of the Northern territories is a footnote. (with all due respect to Tom, Peter and the rest of the Canadian contingent). The wartime record of the Mosquito as a type is much more relevant. Hence, I think we then need to look at the type record, and look at the best outcome for the airframe.
I agree. While the photo mapping of Canada needs to be remembered, the Mossie is such a rare aircraft (especially in airworthy form) that it’s very hard to see it restored in anything other than military colours. To me, honoring members of the Commonwealth air forces should take priority.
BTW: Spartan flew other aircraft…the F-5/P-38 comes to mind.
And IIRC, Mitchells were also used. If not by Spartan, then by another operator for mapping.
Allow me to play devil’s advocate…if the museum wants to honor Spartan’s efforts, wouldn’t a B-25 (which are much more numerous, readily available and fairly “cheap) work as well?
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January 11, 2011 at 4:25 pm