Just so we can have it separate from Mr Dilip Sakar’s thread.
Now, I have something to ask.
I’ve been reading a lot about the different pilot’s, from all the Airforce’s over time, and the pilot kill’s list.
Now ok Marseille’s claim of 158, how many of them were proved to be true kill’s :confused: .
The man was described as a serial womaniser(arn’t they all), boasted continually about his affair’s with movie stars(lucky sod), young women in Germany, put poster’s up on their wall’s of him.
He received sack of fan mail, even in the desert.
And thank’s to ” Pack up your Goebbels in you old kit bag ” Propaganda :rolleyes: he had the profile of a modern day Rock Star!
But at home in Germany, he was constantly in trouble for breaches of discipline.
One damaging comment in his service record reads ‘Fliegerische Unzucht’ which rougly translated mean’s ‘Flying obscenity’.
He was constantly being ticked off for low flying, steep climbing take-offs and circling church steeples when wedding were in place.
Once he landed on one of Hitlers new autobahns just to prove that he could.
Now back to his kill’s 154 in the desert, 4 elsewhere.
Now most seemed like easy meat for a 109, and they say the set up the STAR, had in place was the BOSS(him), did all the work(the kill), and the rest beat off any attacking aircraft for the Boss, and got the scrap’s left over, so not many kill’s if you flew with him…
Doe’s this go somewhere to explain his high claim’s, and was the same system used in the Russian turkey shoot’s.
P.S. not saying they were not great pilot’s.
And of course the non-rotation kept them in the field until they dropped, so you built up higher score’s than the Allied system of rotation.
Also doe’s anyone know any English version’s of the Soviet Ace’s exploits, seem’s most are in Russian.
Ivan Kozhedub clamied 62 victory’s, which made him the highest claming pilot, of the Soviet and Allied Airforce’s in WW2.
And a lot of their of great pilot’s went on to fly and fight past WW2, so to me this is a great untappped source for more interesting book’s to read 😎 .
And soon I hope to read some of the Japanese Ace’s as well, As their are now a few in English.
Sorry I had to dump it all on this thread, on top of all the other problem’s that I live with each day, A siatic problem in my back has flared up once again, and also going through my neck and shoulder’s, making it a little more difficult to move somewhat 🙁 .
Ciao for now,
I must give it a rest 😮
Discuss the ‘ Star of Africa ‘., use this thread as you see fit to do, but please not more BITCH fight’s Lady and Gent’s 😉 .
By: STORMBIRD262 - 27th August 2007 at 16:27
Sound’s interesting!
Thank’s gabor mate ! 😀
I might have a go if the offer still stand’s:confused: , it would be mighty interesting stuff I’m sure.
Oooo Roooo
CROC’S RULE :dev2:
By: gabor42 - 17th February 2007 at 12:09
Andy,
Whilst dangerously reliant on the ‘old grey matter’ – & without any material to hand, am I correct in thinking that he was from Manchester & serving on 151 Sqdn Hurricanes involved in Night intruder ops at the time of his death.
Wife & 2 or 3 kids, killed in an air raid ?
As a kid, I remember reading about a ‘ row with his mechanics (or whoever)’ regarding blood & German remains, wishing to be left on his (?) Hurricane.
Certainly impressed me as a youngster (at the time ! ).Presume that falls under the ” rubbish written” category & has more in common with legend & myth ?
I seem to recall that the book I was given, was actually written during the war itself (circa ’43 ) – with it’s outcome still not assured, & that it featured some photo’s of Mc Kenzies Hurricane (SD * X ) on the cliff-top/ crashlanded after the B of B, Thames Est’/1940 ramming attack.
Belive I may still have the book in my parent’s house loft/ Blue cover & tatty.Anyway, can you recommend any web page info (accurately) detailing R.P.Stevens career or combat stuff, as I guess many folks on here would know as little as I do (or less) about the guy ???
(P.S. just remembered, I’ve got the Osprey Hurri’ book stashed away somewhere, but whether it covers anything Re;Stevens, I know not).
Dear Everybody,
I have dealt with this great pilot, Richard Playne Stevens’s life story for almost 3 years. I have some articles about him, and information about him. If anybody would like to know these, please drop an e-mail and I will be able to send its’ scanned version by e-mail.
My e-mail: [email]nagygabor42@hotmail.com[/email]
Best Wishes
By: Arabella-Cox - 10th September 2006 at 08:39
Yes, a lot of myth about him. One of those cases where the same old story has been perpetuated and become fact! In this instance about his wife and children being killed in an air raid, and this being the motivating force for him “to kill Germans”!! The story has been regurgitated so many times that it seems now to have become an established historical “fact”. The truth is that his wife, Mabel, survived him as did his son who was one of their twin children. The other twin, a girl, died in a terrible domestic accident near Brighton during October 1940 when an oil stove or lamp caught fire. This was nothing to do with enemy action, though. Anyway, the legend grew but the facts are rather different as are many of the other things written about him. I am not sure, either, as to the currently accepted wisdom as to his status as a Battle of Britain pilot. Hope this helps a little, Hornchurch! Andy Saunders
By: Hornchurch - 10th September 2006 at 04:05
ACES R P STEVENS
If this thread is looking at other “forgotten” (?) aces then what about Richard Playne Stevens? An interesting character if ever there was one, but about whom much rubbish has, I am afraid, been consistently written. Andy Saunders
Andy,
Whilst dangerously reliant on the ‘old grey matter’ – & without any material to hand, am I correct in thinking that he was from Manchester & serving on 151 Sqdn Hurricanes involved in Night intruder ops at the time of his death.
Wife & 2 or 3 kids, killed in an air raid ?
As a kid, I remember reading about a ‘ row with his mechanics (or whoever)’ regarding blood & German remains, wishing to be left on his (?) Hurricane.
Certainly impressed me as a youngster (at the time ! ).
Presume that falls under the ” rubbish written” category & has more in common with legend & myth ?
I seem to recall that the book I was given, was actually written during the war itself (circa ’43 ) – with it’s outcome still not assured, & that it featured some photo’s of Mc Kenzies Hurricane (SD * X ) on the cliff-top/ crashlanded after the B of B, Thames Est’/1940 ramming attack.
Belive I may still have the book in my parent’s house loft/ Blue cover & tatty.
Anyway, can you recommend any web page info (accurately) detailing R.P.Stevens career or combat stuff, as I guess many folks on here would know as little as I do (or less) about the guy ???
(P.S. just remembered, I’ve got the Osprey Hurri’ book stashed away somewhere, but whether it covers anything Re;Stevens, I know not).
By: bazv - 9th September 2006 at 14:57
Der Stern Von Afrika
I have the above titled dvd feature film made in 1957 by a German company,partly filmed in spain using (i think!!) Hispano HA 1109 aircraft fitted with Hispano Suiza 12Z-89 V12 engines.these aircraft are fairly similar to the 109f/G.
This film is based on the life story of HJM and is worth a look if only to laugh at the ‘special effects’,but you do get some aircraft close ups and low passes.
My copy is German only but it was released in the US with english subtitles and titled ‘The Star of Africa’ ,but beware , there is a documentary with same title
By: Arabella-Cox - 9th September 2006 at 11:31
Also….!
One of the higest scoring RAF pilot is the almost forgotten ‘Bob’ Braham. He did score most of his kills as a night fighter pilot, flying Blenheims, Baufighters and Mossie’s. He was the most decorated pilot of the RAF during WWII.
Herman
If this thread is looking at other “forgotten” (?) aces then what about Richard Playne Stevens? An interesting character if ever there was one, but about whom much rubbish has, I am afraid, been consistently written. Andy Saunders
By: JDK - 9th September 2006 at 11:09
A good level playing field web listing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighter_aces
By: Beaufighter VI - 9th September 2006 at 11:00
One of the higest scoring RAF pilot is the almost forgotten ‘Bob’ Braham.
A short biography can be found at :- http://www.tauntonschool.org.uk/alumni/obituaries/files/BRAHAM.html
By: flyingcloggie - 9th September 2006 at 10:47
One of the higest scoring RAF pilot is the almost forgotten ‘Bob’ Braham. He did score most of his kills as a night fighter pilot, flying Blenheims, Baufighters and Mossie’s. He was the most decorated pilot of the RAF during WWII.
Herman
By: QldSpitty - 9th September 2006 at 08:48
Geez mate taking a risk..handbags only guys,no brollies or walking canes..there is so much stuff on the web but the prob of it all is how bleedin correct is it all.During the BoB the luftwaffe inflated the scores somewhat.So did the Brits…I,m not sure but didn,t the luftwaffe start up a special branch that investigated each aircraft downed by their pilots?I,ve heard that some kills took months of digging around before the pilot got the mark for it.Other airforces I,m not sure but it is common for all pilots to embelish at some point in their careers.I agree on your points of Marseilles and can,t really add much more.I,m limited by not knowing much about other pilots as Rall or Steinhoff for example,only what has been written generally about them.Others more inteligent than me can provide deeper studies of the aces.Iv,e read the “Blond night of Germany” and thats about it as far as knowledge goes for me.Japanese aces are hard to nail down to specific kills due to the nature of the combat plus many records being lost by the end of the war.Russia is always been a patriotic country so anything to make them look larger than life was used to fool the public.Can,t forget italy as romantic as they were they produced some fine pilots and finer(although undergunned) aircraft.I like threads where things diversify slightly.It,s like a good conversation where the central theme is kept but is enlarged by opinions and ideas and allowed to grow naturally.Here in Auss it,s a common thing to take the Mickey outa something or someone.Keep it light and humourous and don,t get too serious as wars have started for less:)
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September 9, 2006 at 7:17 am