New toys for TFC? (Old thread updated 2016)

Rod Lewis probably needs another Bearcat.

Andy

So the rear seat has been removed. I suppose it’s not going to wear the gorgeous orange Gulfhawk colours either judging by the blue in the wings & tailwheel. Gulfhawk was white in those areas.

Hi Septic,

When Elmer had the engine failure at Osh. he put it down straight off the runway it hit rather hard.

RER

Sorry, I was around Chino then and we knew the only failure was the pilot forgetting he wasn’t in the Mustang. The NTSB found the same.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
THE PILOT-IN-COMMAND’S INADVERTENT USE OF THE MIXTURE RESULTING IN A LEAN MIXTURE.

Here’s the airplane today 2 Jan 2016.

Chad Veich, Its my turn to apologise, I was sure that I took the photo of Elmers Bearcat in May 94, a friend called me this evening to tell me that it was taken in May 93 pre crash.

I’m sorry to mislead anyone, but the grey cells are obviously on the decline.

Septic. :confused:

despite the beer being better there.

.

Huh ??? Depends if you like luke warm lager. Europe has by far the best beer in the world, I spent six years sampling as many as I could..but I digress !

Dave

John, very good points there I guess, but I wonder, do Americans ever get to see what the foreign media says? Or do you actually see much of foreign culture through TV or films etc?

My impession from Americans I’ve known is that the airwaves in your country have loads of local and national news channels but I don’t know if you get to see much news or entertainment from outside your own country’s point of view.

Here in New Zealand we have our own news, made here for TV, radio, internet and newspapers, etc – so yes it has a local slant on things. But we also have free access on TV to BBC World, CBS News, several of Australia’s Channel Nine news shows and that absolute rubbish Fox News Alert show (what a waste of space that is, all war propaganda). As well as straight news we see documentaries made in the UK, the USA, Australia and many other countries.

On radio we have a number of BBC programmes and also Australian made news and documentary shows. We also have access to the web and can source other news agaencies. Our larger newspapers are full of reports from Reuters, Tass and other world agencies, it is not all by New Zealand journalists.

Our ‘popular culture’, ie our televiwsion entertainment, music, films and other day to day stuff is largely American and British. Most people in New Zealand have a good understanding of both those cultures (compared with say the cultures in France or Germany because we are not immersed in it all the time). Most of my friends right here in Cambridge are British, and when I have visited Britain it is virtually the same as New Zealand culturally, except people seem much happier here despite the beer being better there.

New Zealand was colonised by the Poms and has been globalised by the Yanks, so we have a damned good idea of what is going on in the world. We’re not some cut off country that is only fed what our Government wants us to hear.

But I agree, no matter how much we have an understanding of another culture, you really would have to live there to understand it.

Good point (again) John! 😉

Having just travelled from grey Oxfordshire, to sunny / rainswept Santa Barbara, and now in snow covered British Columbia, and facing summer Vistoria, Australia in a month or so, I know what you mean!

Hi John,
It’s very interestring seeing British and US events reported by ‘The Age’ (Aus) and ‘The Globe and Mail’ (Canada). There’s a lot less home team bull in that kind of external media, and by definitian, they don’t have an internal party line (in theory! :rolleyes: )
Cheers

JDK

Good point, but let me add one thing often left out of foreign reporting is real context…
While it’s well and good to try to explian the actions of one nation to people another, but it takes a very good journalist to explain the issues while accurately representing the other country.
Remember the reporter is still a product of a different country and as well as bringing a fresh eye to the situation, also brings his personal background, beliefs, experiences and prejudices. As a simple example, a person raised in lovely Kent will wonder why anyone would want to live in cold Canada, or the Arizona desert.

Or to add another example, some English friends wonder why we don’t drive UK sized cars…until they come over here and drive comparitvely huge distances (the last place I lived, I was 200 miles to the next largest city) and see the size of the streets…what works great in narrow county lanes just isn’t necessary in America, Canada or Australia.

At the ned of the day, you have to spend a lot of time in a county to understand it. As an example, an Englishman won’t get a true picture of America or Americans simply by going to Orlando and reading a politically slanted paper. Likewise, an American won’t understand England by going to London and watching “All Creatures great and Small” on TV.

The BBC reporter was Ian Wooldridge, the programme was ‘Colonel Culpeppers Flying Circus’ and dates from around 1981. One of the principal ‘Good Old Boys’ being interviewed was Col Lefty Gardener.

A great BBC programme, well worth trying to find.
Released as a video by BBC Enterprises ltd.
BBCV6014

Veteran Ian Wooldridge currently works for the Daily Mail as a sports reporter.

Septic.

PS Thanks Crazymainer for bringing the Bearcat story up to date.

If we could work around the Bearcat topic once more….

Around the mid to late 1980s, I remember reading in a “Texas Monthly” magazine about the 20th anniversery of Charles Whitman climbing the tower at the University of Texas in Austin. He shot and killed at least a dozen people before he was killed by the Austin police. I specifically remember reading where somebody from the Confederate Air Force offered to fly a WWII fighter with a machine gun up to Austin to “get that fella out of the tower”. The only reason I remember it is because I wondered if they only had one gun since it said machine gun versus machine guns.

No I don’t think the early CAF guys were a bunch of survivalists, I just thought it was an interesting story.

John, sorry mate, I was not actually trying to say the CAF was started by wackos, just merely poining out a possible reason for what was said in that documentary. I don’t think Migs would have had much trouble from WWII fighters, but the USSR’s pistone engined bombers might have, and their ground troops if a ‘Red Dawn’ situation had occurred.

I take your point that the media can make something seem a lot more than it seems when you’re actually there. That happens everywhere in the world. But there’s no smoke without fire, as they say.There must have been something in what was said.

Anyway, this is all irrelevent to the thread about the Bearcat so let’s let them get the thread back on track.

Hi John,
Good points! However, as regard your last ‘flip’ remark (I think I know where you are coming from…) better to see a country from the view of a foreign press than the press of the home… It’s very interestring seeing British and US events reported by ‘The Age’ (Aus) and ‘The Globe and Mail’ (Canada). There’s a lot less home team bull in that kind of external media, and by definitian, they don’t have an internal party line (in theory! :rolleyes: )
Cheers

I doubt they were given a script to read by some British writer. That would be just silly.

Why not? As you well know there are a lot of militia groups even today in the USA who don’t believe the country’s defences are adequate.

Dave

I agree with JDK that ithis is a journalist vs guy with funny old airpane thing…rather than an US-UK issue.
As a broadcast journalist I know all too well how easy it is for a writer to make a large point out of a small statement someone says. And I know from personal experiance (from my days as a spokesman for USAF forces in the UK) that some elements of the English media can’t resist the chance to make Americans look weird (not that it’s that hard to do sometimes 🙂 )

As for comparing the CAF to the FEW wackos in the militia movement…I think that’s a diservice to the group that has done more to preserve WWII American aircraft than any other group. Again, these guys make look (and sound) like “rubes” to a lot of people, but you’ll never meet a finer bunch of warbird fliers.
As for you assertion that they were “scared witless” of the “endless US propaganda that the ‘commies were coming” … Many of these guys were WWII combat vets…and hard seasoned West Texas oilmen and ranchers..men like that don’t scare easily.
And I repeat my assertion that they’re far too smart to think a P-38 would take on a MiG over Dallas. Give these guys a bit of credit!!!
Dave, I’m not doubting your word or rememberances, rather whether the CAF people believed that themselves….

FYI..There were never a “lot” of militia groups in the US…and most of the members they did have were mainly looking for an excuse to got out in the woods, drink beer and shoot their hunting rifles. Even the infamous Idaho white supremist group only had 100-150 members. Again, a lot of media coverage can make something small look a lot larger. Since the Oklahoma City bombing…and since 9-11, there hasn’t been much heard from the groups.

But hey what do I know…I only live (and report, write and fly) here…so I don’t have the benefit of having my views of the US shaped by the Auckland newspapers and the BBC world service. :dev2:

I posted a shot on webshots under Chino ’04 of the left side, center Fuselage skin from Elmer’s bearcat…any rebuild work did not include alot of the original machine. The skin is hanging on the wall in the center of the picture. One of the great mysteries of Warbirds. The drop tank is/was also hanging at the entrance to the hangar.

http://community.webshots.com/user/jfharley

Jim

My guess is either the BBC writer was trying to add a bit of “Colour” to the story (admit it…how many times have you seen an English writer come to the US “In search of America” only to write about the weirdest, most colorful, Jerry Springer-type people he could find?) …or the CAF guys were having a leg pull and the writer believed it. After living in West Texas, I know those “good ol’ boys” do have a very dry sense of humour. 🙂

Well John. it has been a long time since I saw the documentary, but I watched it several times back then and my recollection is that it was actually the members themselves saying it directly during an interview – I doubt they were given a script to read by some British writer. That would be just silly. Maybe they were saying it tongue-in-cheek, I cannot recall, but my memory recalls that they were pretty serous. I hope someone here has that programme on video and can clarify my faded memories of about 15 years ago. I am happy to be corrected.

Now those Texas boys weren’t so stupid to believe that a P-51 and P-38 were going too keep America from being invaded when the entire Air Defense and Tactical Air Commands (with their countless F-102s, 104s, and Phantoms) had failed. 🙂

Why not? As you well know there are a lot of militia groups even today in the USA who don’t believe the country’s defences are adequate. Most of them are nuts who build bunkers and have more weaponry than the military, and are more dangerous than the supposed enemy. So why could a similar mentailty not apply to warbirds owners who were WWII and Korea vets and were scared witless by the endless US propaganda that the Commies were coming? It is not beyond the realms of reality, is it?

My guess is either the BBC writer was trying to add a bit of “Colour” to the story (admit it…how many times have you seen an English writer come to the US “In search of America” only to write about the weirdest, most colorful, Jerry Springer-type people he could find?) …or the CAF guys were having a leg pull and the writer believed it. After living in West Texas, I know those “good ol’ boys” do have a very dry sense of humour.

Indeed. And rather than being a US vs UK pitch, I think it’s more to do with a TV journalism vs funny guys with old aeroplanes thing.

Cheers

PS: I’ve noted the odd US visitor to the UK to refer to the place as ‘cute’ – you see what you want to! 😉

Mustang vs. MiG…Nonsense…

Well, in an excellent 1980’s BBC documentary on The Confederate Air Force they said the reasons for that group to buy up old fighters like Mustangs, etc., and restore them to the air were two-fold. One was because they reckoned the Government wasn’t doing enough to preserve the histroic side of things,probably true.
And the other reason was because they lived in constant fear of war with the Russians.
The enjoyment was probably more a by-product of these initial reasons.

While hardly a spokesperson for the CAF I have visited their musuem and have known many high ranking members of that organization…and I can only express my belief that the BBC’s second reason is pure and utter nonsense.
The founders of the CAF said they were trying to preserve the aircraft when few others were doing it…hense the word “Confederate” in their title.
Now those Texas boys weren’t so stupid to believe that a P-51 and P-38 were going too keep America from being invaded when the entire Air Defense and Tactical Air Commands (with their countless F-102s, 104s, and Phantoms) had failed.
My guess is either the BBC writer was trying to add a bit of “Colour” to the story (admit it…how many times have you seen an English writer come to the US “In search of America” only to write about the weirdest, most colorful, Jerry Springer-type people he could find?) …or the CAF guys were having a leg pull and the writer believed it. After living in West Texas, I know those “good ol’ boys” do have a very dry sense of humour. 🙂

Chad, the Bearcat crashed at Oshkosh in 1993, I took this photo at Chino in May 1994.

Does anyone know how badly the Bearcat was damaged.

Septic.

My appologies, I had no idea the Bearcat had been put back into static display condition after the wreck. My understanding from little tidbits I’ve read here and there is that a rebuild to flying would be a huge undertaking if even possible at all. Last time I saw the bird a restoration had been started but work had all but stopped due to the severity of the damage, at least that’s what I understood. Looks pretty darn “straight” in your pic though!

Chad, the Bearcat crashed at Oshkosh in 1993, I took this photo at Chino in May 1994.

Does anyone know how badly the Bearcat was damaged.

Septic.

Hi Septic,

When Elmer had the engine failure at Osh. he put it down straight off the runway it hit rather hard.

The engine was smash up breaking the lower engine mont brackets and the bellie receive alot damage, one of the wing tips was fold up but I don’t recall which one. Plus their was signs of internial Fusl. damage the rear fusl. had signs on skin buckling.

I think when you took the shot Elmer had done some structal stuff to get her back together. Elmer had a good section of left over Bearcat parts so it was a easy rebuild. But what I’ve been told it wasn’t a complete rebuild .

Cheers
RER

Chad, the Bearcat crashed at Oshkosh in 1993, I took this photo at Chino in May 1994.

Does anyone know how badly the Bearcat was damaged.

Septic.