New Wheels for BBMF Spits

Was talking to an old mate of mine who has been in the bizz for over thirty odd years and he suggested have a look at Pilatus Porter wheels and tyres.Never know till you try..

If the MoD apply their normal terms of business, when they pay for development they expect a license fee from the use of that design elsewhere

If the MoD apply their normal terms of business – they’ll get a second rate job at twice the cost and it won’t ****in work when they eventually do get it.

mick

The unfortunate thing is that the MoD will lead the way with paying for development costs etc and then others will reap the rewards!!

If the MoD apply their normal terms of business, when they pay for development they expect a license fee from the use of that design elsewhere

Now that will be worth watching!

And in my experience too Fluffy, if the MoD go for something others will too. The unfortunate thing is that the MoD will lead the way with paying for development costs etc and then others will reap the rewards!!

I was surprised to see that Spade grips are now having to be replaced as they become structually unsound…pity.

The bottom line here is that Dunlop no longer make tubes the sub contractor they used has gone bust, they have also binned any remaining valves so we cannot even adapt alternative tubes. I have been trying to sort this out for years you cannot get tubes for 10.25 and 12 inch main wheels or for Hurricane and Spifire tail wheels although there is at least an alternative for the Spit tail tube.
If you think this is bad news brake bags are the next item that are going to cause problems.

In my experience if we the BBMF go tubeless and it works the CAA will not have a problem with others following our lead.

Mark a 10.25x 7.5 tube costs £323

Agh, but don’t forget the queens paying so the decimal point will have moved 😀

In my experience if we the BBMF go tubeless and it works

Now that will be worth watching!

I’m sure there are many companies out there who have the expertise to build tyres & inner tubes, that is not in question, the problem is certification for use on an aircraft! with the product liability laws around at this time no one is going to want to be the first to make them. As I said before, it’s not a large production run anyway as it has a very limited market.

Fluffy, got any spare brake bags?? 😉

“KERTHUMF”..the sound of me hitting the floor after doing the old English pound to Aussie dollar conversion…With technollagy the way it is I am with Mk12 with this one.We can just about make any bit for a Spit these days,put man into space,go deeper and deeper into the deepest waters on earth,climb the highest peaks and look further and further into the universe.And we can,t get someone to reproduce a bit of rubber tube.Have you tried Antique F1 car clubs for their rubber suppliers?Come on guys this problem needs a solution.

Definately a case for a ‘Sun’ type article !

‘BBMF Let Down ! ‘

‘Spitfires Tyred Out !’

‘Wheel meet again? ‘

Mark a 10.25x 7.5 tube costs £323

They used to cost £50.

That’s inflation for you……….. 63 p.s.i. 🙂

Mark

The bottom line here is that Dunlop no longer make tubes the sub contractor they used has gone bust, they have also binned any remaining valves so we cannot even adapt alternative tubes. I have been trying to sort this out for years you cannot get tubes for 10.25 and 12 inch main wheels or for Hurricane and Spifire tail wheels although there is at least an alternative for the Spit tail tube.
If you think this is bad news brake bags are the next item that are going to cause problems.

In my experience if we the BBMF go tubeless and it works the CAA will not have a problem with others following our lead.

Mark a 10.25x 7.5 tube costs £323

Mark – I can just imagine the CAA saying no to new tubes when it has a number of CAA test pilots who must relish the chance to try the breed. I would also imagine that the conditions the Mod will be working to on it’s requirement would more than satisfy the criteria of the CAA.

In years past Dunlop were very free and easy with releasing the detail and assembly drawings of their Spitfire related items, wheels brakes etc. I have a number of them

Product liability is almost certainly playing a part here I am sure. It is probable that Dunlop will not release the drawings and specifications nor will warrant a sub-contractor to undertake a small batch production. The engineering surely cannot be the issue.

Usually a headline in the British National Press to the effect ” British Spitfire Fleet grounded for the sake of a £50 (not real price :)) inner tube” is enough for some ‘Lady Houston’ to concentrate the minds on a solution.

Mark

Mark – I can just imagine the CAA saying no to new tubes when it has a number of CAA test pilots who must relish the chance to try the breed. I would also imagine that the conditions the Mod will be working to on it’s requirement would more than satisfy the criteria of the CAA.

With the current climate at the CAA I would be very interested to hear what they had to say about a new ‘Tubeless Wheel and Tyre assembly’ for Spitfires and what they would require to grant approval for flight usage.

Just because the BBMF/Mod are pursuing this path does not mean automatically the CAA will approve it for civilian operated Spitfires.

I look at the valve stems on a Spitfire inner tube. We can make laminated boxed spar booms for Spitfire wings. We can turn a few rusty tubes in to a Hawker bi-plane ….and we can’t make or convert a standard Schraeder Valve with an aerospace quality brass 1/4″ tube with a couple of complex bends in it. 🙁

Mark

The other side of the coin is that witha limited production run you can keep the end product price higher and once you have done the production tooling you know that in a few years time there will be demand for a new batch as they become life expired.

I’d think it would be cheaper to commission a set of tubes than a set of hubs for the fleet of later Spits around the world.
Tom

The problem lies in the fact that you can’t ‘just’ re design a wheel for an aircraft so that it is possible to fit modern ‘tubeless’ tyres without a lot of ‘proving & testing’. We have just had some 12″ tyres delivered & have rejected one as the balance ‘lump’ (for want of a better word) may have affected the tube had there been one fitted.
One of the problems with making new tubes is the inflation tube that fits into the wheel so you can pump it up, they will also have to be re manufactured & with that comes approvals & such like, It may be a long time before we see some ‘new build’ tubes as the market is just not there to justify the tooling & R and D for a big company when maybe they will sell a couple of hundred units world wide. Also remember, rubber has a shelf life! so no one would want to have a pile of these things sat on a shelf running out of life before being used. Tubes may be the same size for many aircraft but the inflation tube may not be!

It’s quite worrying if that is the correct term, that a huge amount of time and money can be spent to return a Spitfire into the air only to find a componant as basic as a tyre can literally stop the project in it’s tracks.

If the demand is there and it is / will be someone will fill it, the problem will be as always cost!

Eric

It’s quite worrying if that is the correct term, that a huge amount of time and money can be spent to return a Spitfire into the air only to find a componant as basic as a tyre can literally stop the project in it’s tracks.

I’m not sure if they produced any, I know they were refurbing a number recently and that there was talk of having to produce some for the Weizmann Black Spit if replacements couldn’t be sourced, as the ones that were from the aircraft were somewhat past it.

The Problem really lies with the tyres and tubes though as Fluffy has pointed out (sorry for going slightly off-topic). Have any tyre companies got moulds/tooling for the 10.25 x 7.5 tubes in store? As I’d think it would be cheaper to commission a set of tubes than a set of hubs for the fleet of later Spits around the world. I seem to remember the Boss telling me of the steep price that was paid for the set of hubs for the MKI which are soon to be removed, they weren’t cheap.

Tom

Fluffy – I thought Supermarine at Stoke had also produced some wheels for Spitfires recently ? I prefer tubed tyres due to the fact that the tyre is far less prone to deflation in cornering than a tubeless tyre.