Nice SM-2 and ESSM shots from De Zeven Provinciën klasse fregatten class.

I can’t read the page but there are some nice high rez photos here:

http://www.marineschepen.nl/marschepen/zeprov.html

One question I have is why did they leave the blank spot on the VLS here? If they’d dropped in one more 8-cell that could have been up to 32 ESSMs.

their afraid the missiles might hit the CWIS mounting on the port side.

The other possible explanation for the ‘missing cells’, given the lack of alternative vents for the hot exhaust gasses from the launch cells, is that there is the worlds largest coffee maker hidden under there! If you want a regular coffee, launch an ESSM, but for the extra steam needed for espresso, you need to launch an SM-2! :diablo:

I read yesterday Japan had signed on as a major partner in the SM-3 TBMD pgm and will manufacture the nosecone and 1st stage motor. US will develop the warhead and infra-red seeker among other things.

we had already seen a circular 4 faced PA radar being tested in japan for TBMD intercept role. maybe they will mount this in dedicated AAW cruisers armed with say 100 P-VLS cells ported from the DD21 design.

yeah baby yeah.

It is even worse, they would say ‘the chances of being attacked by 128 aircraft are zero, in fact, our ships have never been attacked in the last X years, so we do not need any missiles at all’… It is so good that the media feel they are the guardians of the public ‘good’!

As for the newer Sylver, I seem to remember them mentioning a Sylver 70, which would have the ability to launch the surface version of Scalp/Storm Shadow, though I am not sure how far this has progressed. It is a great pity they did not go with the Mk41 though, since it is a much more flexible launcher – I suspect you could even fire an Aster 30 type missile out of it, though I do not know for certain. Personally, I see no real advantage to going for the naval-Scalp missile (technically it is a French product at the moment, so Scalp is probably more accurate), compared to going for the Tomahawk. The Tomahawk has been in service for a long time, it has proven itself, and has a good unit cost (that has actually halved over the last ten years or so), whereas the Naval-Scalp is totally untried and tested.

I think the suggestion was that when time comes for follow on batches of Type 45s, they would become the ‘Medium Versatile Surface Combattant’, with more emphasis on ASW and land attack.

I don’t know why they didn’t equip her with the extra launchers though! I guess arming it would have been too costly. Even on her latest deployment in the Gulf, Zeven Provinciën didn’t carry the second Goalkeeper, I think that means they’re really getting short on money.

Don’t forget the public opinion, and politicians that are influenced by it. Take the Nansen class with only 1 Mk41 installed of 4 possible. Since they’re only using ESSM at the moment, a full load would be 128 ESSM.
It’s easier for the press to accept X frigates at Y cost with a small weapons load, but if they would’ve found out that the Navy was buying X frigates at Y cost with 128+8 missiles, they would begin to question if we really need a ship with that kind of missile load, and shouldn’t we just buy a 3000-ton vessel instead, etc. Doesn’t matter if the Navy would say, oh but you can only put 32 SM2 in there and the SM2 is the real AAW missile… press would still say “frigates with a missile capacity of 136.”

This way they can add an extra Mk41 or two or three with SM2 in a couple of years, when the press has their focus elsewhere. (Fighter procurement.)

EdLaw, wasn’t there talk of using a newer Sylver launcher (R53?) on the later T-45s, with Storm Shadow capability?

Ahh, but the good bit with VLS cells is that the public does not need to know that they are empty! :diablo:

Good ships yes, but they had their part of design trouble too though.

As for earmarking space, when something is as modular as this, I don’t see a better configuration for these 40 canisters… So having space there, might not mean they had it earmarked for extra launchers rather than just having that space as spare.
I don’t know why they didn’t equip her with the extra launchers though! I guess arming it would have been too costly. Even on her latest deployment in the Gulf, Zeven Provinciën didn’t carry the second Goalkeeper, I think that means they’re really getting short on money.

The loadout you mention is probably what they will carry in case of conflict and is indeed the best ballanced one. For now they remain air defence frigates. I’ll ask the guys what the real loadout is.

No need Neptune, I was just surprised, in part because the only real weapons that needs the Strike length are the Tomahawk and SM-2 Block IV, and I did not know they had looked at fitting the Tomahawk for so long (or Block IV either). Mind you, they are very capable ships, so it probably should not be a surprise. It might make sense to reduce the SM-2 loadout to 24, add 8 Tomahawk and carry 32 ESSM (to offset the reduction in SM-2s).

Now, to persuade the RN to drop the Sylver launcher, and fit the far more versatile Mk41 instead…

It’s still a head scratcher though. Compared to the cost of the ship the cost for one more 8-cell VLS has got to be trivial expecially since you’ve already earmarked space for it.

Yes very sure, comes from a Dutch Navy officer. I can look for the further information he gave if you want that.

Edit: I checked the information, all cells are of Strike length in Zeven Provinciën, by removing the parts on the bottom, they can fire SM-3 and Tomahawk from all tubes, although it’s more likely they’ll just have 7 or 8 of them. I think it depends what investments they want to do, opt for the additional 8 cell launcher and fill that with Tomahawks or just remove some SM-2s. The fact that they never installed the second Goalkeeper as a standard equipment makes me think they’ll opt for the current configuration.

Are you sure? I did not know the existing cells were ‘strike length’ – I just assumed they would be the tactical length (cheaper!). Ahh well, learn something new every day!

Dutch have indeed approved Tomahawk, they will go in the current VLS, probably sacrificing some SM-2s. Why the spot is left open, no one knows… But normally they aren’t going to fill it up in the near future.

If memory serves, the Dutch have just put through a request for Tomahawks, specifically for the De Zeven Provincien class, though whether the VLS cells will go there, I do not know.

Here is the other good example of empty space for additional Vertical Launcher System, South Korean KD-2 Destroyer.

ROK Navy launched 4th KD-2 Destroyer, “Wang-Gun”, with extra space for additional VLS. (Actually, first 3 of KD-2 Destroyer arms with 32 of VLS. But other 3 KD-2 Destroyer will armed with 64 of VLS.)

Actually, they have prepared this space for arm with 16 of ‘Boramae-1’ (Falcon-1) Ship-to-surface cruise missile and 16 of K-ASROC later. :diablo:

I guess they have planned to left enough space for same (or similar) purpose. (Maybe, Tomahawk? :eek:)