Nicolas Sarkozy Elected

A splendid gesture, kudos to you.

Apology accepted unreservedly. 🙂

Meanwhile, any serious objections to, or complaints about, the actions of any moderator should be made directly to the Webmaster either by PM or by email.

GA

Consider it done. Your actions is this thread, for someone who is supposedly a moderator have been unacceptable, firstly the attempted to hi-jack the thread by introducing anti-american sentiment then when challenged you took an aggresive and sarcastic tone with other posters. This is certainly not a way to inspire confidence in this website.:mad:

Moderator Message

A splendid gesture, kudos to you.

Apology accepted unreservedly. 🙂

Meanwhile, any serious objections to, or complaints about, the actions of any moderator should be made directly to the Webmaster either by PM or by email.

GA

Nice try, chaps.

Nice try…… :rolleyes:

A simple apology would have done it.:mad:

Nice effort at thread high-jacking Grey-area, nice to see the moderators setting the standard.:mad:

Shhh! Don’t upset him..or he’ll use his magical powers lock or delete the thread. :diablo:

Nice try, chaps.

Nice try…… :rolleyes:

ems.
Nice effort at thread high-jacking Grey-area, nice to see the moderators setting the standard.:mad:

Shhh! Don’t upset him..or he’ll use his magical powers to lock or delete the thread. :diablo:

A sad result for the ordinary working people of France. They can now look foreward to the same erosion of their hard won rights and conditions of employment as has happened to much of the working people in the UK. Also if the rumours are to be believed Sarkozys election may bring to an end the vital counterbalance to the Anglo/US axis which France has provided for some time past, I don’t see that being good for the world at large either. Certain states in the Near/Middle East may also have lost a valuable ally in Paris. IMO an election result with not much to recommend it and one that a large part of the French electorate could come to regret, unless you have great wealth…. sadly a familliar story:(

Yeah sad for 10% that are already unemployed as a result of such rights. France needs to get over itself and embrace globalisation and the rest of civilisation as a whole rather than sitting back and blaming the rest of the world for its problems.

Nice effort at thread high-jacking Grey-area, nice to see the moderators setting the standard.:mad:

A sad result for the ordinary working people of France. They can now look foreward to the same erosion of their hard won rights and conditions of employment as has happened to much of the working people in the UK. …

The ordinary working people of France currently have rights & conditions of employment such that many of them can’t get any employment at all. What use is utterly secure employment & a high minimum wage if because of them, nobody will take the risk of employing you?

There must be balance, as Frankvw says. The evidence is overwhelming that France has tilted the balance too far in favour of employee rights, so that the supply of employment has been adversely affected by it. The same thing happened here with private rented housing, where tenants were given so many legal protections that decent, honest landlords found the business untenable, producing a desperate shortage of affordable housing for rent, unless you wanted to deal with the sort of landlord whose reaction to late rent was to send round a heavy or two. When legal protection for tenants was reduced (not removed, just cut back to a more sensible level), there was a flood of new entrants into the market, & a massive increase in supply.

Let’s hope, for the sake of the millions of “ordinary working people of France” who currently can’t find jobs, that Sarko manages to improve the balance for them.

Perhaps I was a little blunt in describing your views as “not rational” – a more polite description might be “ahistorical”, in that although I would like to share your belief in a world of nations “free of ideological & economic manipulation by more powerful ones” I find that any reading of history shows such a belief to be utterly unrealistic! As I said before, power abhors a vacuum, and strong nations will inevitably impose their will upon weaker ones: better that this be done by a relatively benign nation such as the USA, or in the 19thC Great Britain, than a tyrannical, despotic power such as the Third Reich, or the USSR, or China… Or any Arab state you care to mention. Or Indonesia, Iran…
hps

Point taken, however I really can’t go along with classing the USA as a “relatively benign nation” but then again I am ideologically opposed to it. I think that the perception of the USA has to depend from where in the world you are looking at it and its policies. We could persue this further but maybe it would detract too far from the original thread. As far as the Non Alligned movement is concerned I have always admired its ideals and the individuals and States who have championed its cause. Idealistic? maybe, but not a bad ideal to have;)

Gollevainen….Some interesting points I think!

…you have a poor opinion of those of us who embrace a world made up of sovereign states free of ideological and economic manipulation by more “powerful” ones, and it is your right to hold and espouse those views, indeed I would challenge anyone who would seek to rob you of that right. You may class my views as not rational as they do not coincide with yours..

Perhaps I was a little blunt in describing your views as “not rational” – a more polite description might be “ahistorical”, in that although I would like to share your belief in a world of nations “free of ideological & economic manipulation by more powerful ones” I find that any reading of history shows such a belief to be utterly unrealistic! As I said before, power abhors a vacuum, and strong nations will inevitably impose their will upon weaker ones: better that this be done by a relatively benign nation such as the USA, or in the 19thC Great Britain, than a tyrannical, despotic power such as the Third Reich, or the USSR, or China… Or any Arab state you care to mention. Or Indonesia, Iran…
hps

The proplem is that the western way of life cannot survive in the future. Changes that the green house effect and the rise of population-rich third world giants to want same luxury, will bring this wasting and consuming economy into its knees.
…and we all know exactly how smart in long term the rigth wingers worshiping of ever continual growth is.
Saddest thing is that we have build our world into that foolish believe and to change it isent going to be easy task. Either we follow the “whites” into the point where all crushes down upon us or take the “red” path wich would need voluntarily dropping the main symbols of our wealth:( 🙁

Balancing between the employers acient old lust for enslave the working class or conducting socialism in the capitalist jungle are just tools to make that buble we live in to last little bit longer…and futher we go, the worser the cosequences will be!

hpsauce, I thank you for your balanced and polite reply. Yes we do view the world from two totally different perspectives, I guess thats what makes for interesting forums. Like many, you have a poor opinion of those of us who embrace a world made up of sovereign states free of ideological and economic manipulation by more “powerful” ones, and it is your right to hold and espouse those views, indeed I would challenge anyone who would seek to rob you of that right. You may class my views as not rational as they do not coincide with yours, I’ll live with the that…makes for good debate:)

Right now the problem with the socialist governments is that: They tax corporations in an excessive way. That means that the labor here costs too much. So, they’ll delocalize –> job losses –> more people relying on social security, and expecting the same advantages, when the incoming money to pay them is less. That can’t work.

There must be a balance, and right now, the balance is dangerously starting to lean. The social help should be there for those who really need it, because of an infortunate event, a sickness, … But when it comes to cater for a big part of the population, there is a problem, and the whole system can’t cope anymore…

Sorry that my sign off tag infuriates you so much..

It doesn’t. I just think it’s a transparent heart-on-the-sleeve clue to your political leanings. In the end there’s no such thing as “non aligned”, it’s not rational, and power abhors a vacuum…

Comments were requested by the original poster on the election of Sarkozy and I have given them without questioning anyone elses ability to digest/understand news and events.

I didn’t question (etc)… I just think that “non aligners” are inherently prone to a lack of objectivity about outcomes.

My view on the French election is my own and I hope that by the end of Sarkozys term in office, for the French peoples sake, that I am proved wrong, but I doubt I will be.

Well, we have opposing views on what might be good for the people of France in terms of its style of government – which impinges also upon its friends and neighbours. As I suggested originally, the country can simply not afford the onerously Socialist burden of taxation and regulation that has grown so steadily: punitive tax-and-spend quickly comes up against the law of diminishing returns. France has a sickly economy, with stagnant growth and high unemployment. If continued, it will place France (esp. its economy/trade) in an increasingly invidious relationship with the more free-market nations of the West.
hps

Well, “economical growth” (sic) is what provides the tax base to pay for the cornucopia of State provision to which the “common people” are so addicted, and which creates the satellite TV on which they can watch their favourite “reality TV” shows.

the growth provides growth to the tax base;) And I agree, what a world it would be without state broadcasted realityshows:p :p

hpsauce…Sorry that my sign off tag infuriates you so much, but I stick by it none the less:) I like to feel that I have as much understanding of world affairs as most of us on here, or are any of us ambassadors to the UN? ( if one of us is then I apologise)…Comments were requested by the original poster on the election of Sarkozy and I have given them without questioning anyone elses ability to digest/understand news and events. Please award me the same courtesy. My view on the French election is my own and I hope that by the end of Sarkozys term in office, for the French peoples sake, that I am proved wrong, but I doubt I will be.

Yeah exactly what Europe needs, More power to the employers so that they can tune up the marching songs for economical growth (the new god) from the back-skin of the working class…:mad: 😡
But, hey as long as the figures on the employers account book keeps icreasing, Hip hip hurray ….Hope they dont forget to grasb the “invisible hand” while dancing in their circle of joy, another victory from the common people….

Well, “economical growth” (sic) is what provides the tax base to pay for the cornucopia of State provision to which the “common people” are so addicted, and which creates the satellite TV on which they can watch their favourite “reality TV” shows…

Fortuanetly, frenchmen are among the europeans most eager to rise to barricades when ever the employers starts to believe too blindly to their perversion that when their personal economy is balanced, everyone is happy

The otherwise admirable readiness of the French to get stroppy ought to be seen in context: what they get really revolutionary about is any perceived threat of a reduction in State handouts, money taken from wealth creators and redistributed to parasites.
hps

in France the situation is even more extreme, with many employers protesting about the difficulty of getting rid of bad employees no matter how unsatisfactory their performance. Sarko might possibly amend this situation a bit, which could only improve France’s economic prospects.

Yeah exactly what Europe needs, More power to the employers so that they can tune up the marching songs for economical growth (the new god) from the back-skin of the working class…:mad: 😡
But, hey as long as the figures on the employers account book keeps icreasing, Hip hip hurray ….Hope they dont forget to grasb the “invisible hand” while dancing in their circle of joy, another victory from the common people….

Fortuanetly, frenchmen are among the europeans most eager to rise to barricades when ever the employers starts to believe too blindly to their perversion that when their personal economy is balanced, everyone is happy:diablo:

Moderation Moment

[FONT=”Arial”][COLOR=”DarkRed”]Resorting to the use of an ad hominem ([COLOR=”Blue”]Latin: “argument against the person”, “argument against the man”[/COLOR]) usually indicates that the poster has doubts about the strength of their own argument and seeks to disguise this by asserting that their opponent’s argument must be wrong because of some characteric of the opponent himself.

It’s not big and is seldom clever.

Pray continue. 😎

GA[/COLOR][/FONT]

A sad result for the ordinary working people of France. They can now look foreward to the same erosion of their hard won rights and conditions of employment as has happened to much of the working people in the UK.

Really? Details, please? UK citizens now “enjoy” exceptionally high levels of employment protection, welfare benefits, and minimum-wage rules, to a degree which of course inhibits full employment; in France the situation is even more extreme, with many employers protesting about the difficulty of getting rid of bad employees no matter how unsatisfactory their performance. Sarko might possibly amend this situation a bit, which could only improve France’s economic prospects.

..Sarkozys election may bring to an end the vital counterbalance to the Anglo/US axis which France has provided for some time past..

Uh? “vital counterbalance”? France’s quixotic attachment to perversity in foreign affairs, its reflexive opposition to what it sees as an Anglophone cabal, its inferiority complex concerning its reduced importance in world affairs, its infuriatingly equivocal attitude to the suppression of Islamist and other terrorism, do not amount to any sort of “counterbalance” but instead leave France’s Western allies and would-be friends feeling baffled and angry!

Certain states in the Near/Middle East may also have lost a valuable ally in Paris.

Which states? Not a single Arab/Islamic state in that part of the globe has a government that is properly democratic – in ironic contrast to Israel, the bete-noire of apologists for Islamist extremism…
Your partiality outstrips your ability to assess international relationships objectively – perhaps your sign-off tag about “non-aligned” gives the game away.
hps

How did I contradict myself? It’s obviously important on an international relations level for the governments to have relations, but for me personally?

I don’t know any French people so why am I to care if they like us or not? Sorry to hijack the thread, but I’m just curious as to why I woud be contradicting myself? The fact that I mentioned my feelings? They are just personal, individual feelings afterall…..