Night rating

Good luck with it Dean. The one thing that puts me off night flying is where do you put the thing down if the fan stops?? The thought of being away from the airfield and aiming for a ‘Black’ bit and hoping for the best is not very appealing. At least in daylight you can see the ditches, fences etc….

I think I’ll save the fun of night flying until I get a MEP rating. At least if an engine goes i’ll have a fighting chance of landing back between the runway lights 😉

I concur Simon, my night flying will be somewhat limited once I have the qualification, an engine failure in an SEP at night does not fill me with excitement, I haven’t been there as yet but I wonder how much you can actually see once you get closer to the ground, I bet it’s a little more than what’s on view at altitude, but even then yes highly risky. If I did not need the night for my CPL issue then I am not sure I would do it, having 2 babies under the age of 2 certainly makes you think about it alot more.

DME, yes mate great views, and shouldn’t our landings be the other way around? good by day & dodgy by night? oh well at least I can see myself stuff up during the day, problem is so can everyone else HAHA.

Rob sorry to hear about your colour blindness, bit of a bummer, shame you haev to miss out on such views but at least you did get to do it at some point.

Andy only 2 nights? baaa you lucky thing, hit & miss I guess, even tonight looks like its going to be a great night but we could have about 8k vis 🙁
It is a great tool isn’t it for being able to stay a little while longer somewhere, or if you get delayed you can factor out the gethomeitis that alot of pilots suffer.

Anyway a Nav Ex tonight I think to Gloucester for some circuits so I can see the difference between a narrow runway and the wide runway of Filton.
I’ll do a report when I get back 🙂

Dean

The great spreadsheet shows I did my night rating over just two consecutive evenings, the 9th and 10th January 1998 – wow, nearly eight years ago! Since then, it seems my night total has increased to only 20 hours. Ah well, it was great fun – I hope you enjoy yours Dean – and it remains so even now as I’ve just clocked up my first 55 minutes night flying this winter (including the three landings that are they key to carrying passengers again). Fan hasn’t stopped yet, and if it does c’est la vie (or not, maybe!).

I use my night rating mainly as a “we don’t have to push on to get home before dark” rating – James May on Top Gear eat your heart out – and for that its worth maintaining IMHO.

Andy

I have held a night rating since about 1990, but those blighters at the CAA have snatched it off me (colour vision)

I used to love night flying, and could even live with the increased risks for the reward of a flight on a clear, starry night.

Moggy

Good luck with it Dean. The one thing that puts me off night flying is where do you put the thing down if the fan stops?? The thought of being away from the airfield and aiming for a ‘Black’ bit and hoping for the best is not very appealing. At least in daylight you can see the ditches, fences etc….

I think I’ll save the fun of night flying until I get a MEP rating. At least if an engine goes i’ll have a fighting chance of landing back between the runway lights 😉

Good stuff Dean,

You seem to be the same as me with night landings, they are so much better than my day ones.

It’s a great view up there at night.

dme

Indeed, I cant wait to get my NR, views must be stunning, luckily Bristol has PAPI’s and an ILS so this bacame very handy, also I could see the ground for reference as well so it wasnt as ‘dodgy’ as it sounds hehe

Dean

Dean,
Sounds like you did a great job! I live over in the States now and hold an FAA license which includes the night rating (as standard). Flying at night is one of my favourite times to fly (you can see city and town lights for many miles around on a clear night), and generally the air is smoother. I do like to have a PAPI, VASI or ILS available for landing though as it is easier to miss judge your approach angle at night.

Hi Paul

It went superb, infact it was an absolute peach lol, better than my others btu I guess that was blind luck, Ive landed at dusk before but never as dark as that, luckily everything was easy to see as the airport and Bristol City was lit up, it wasnt completely dark but near as damn it and as I said above I havent got a night rating so I was becoming concerned with the light fading so fast and obviously it being darker at ground level than up in the air but waiting for the emergency flight to land and be cleared away was safer than diverting, if he’d pancaked on the runway and I HAD to divert then things could have gotten interesting, luckily it was a beautiful day and Cardiff isnt that far away (Filton may have been closed)

Dean

Deanno, how did your night landing go? Had you experienced a night landing before? Just wondering, because landing at night can look very different.

infact Steve

If you repost it in another topic I’ll make it a sticky thread, I know the info is only relevant until the CAA update or change the rulings etc but we can cross that bridge as and when this happens

D.

Done, still in General Aviation, but under “UK Night flying & IFR / SVFR / VFR” and slightly edited to make it stand alone.

Regards,
Steve.

DME

Get us some piccies mate 😉 I love night shots 🙂

I’ll get some posted next week if the weather is suitable 🙂

I’m going over to PIK to do the circuit stuff, landings are alot cheaper there.

DME

infact Steve

If you repost it in another topic I’ll make it a sticky thread, I know the info is only relevant until the CAA update or change the rulings etc but we can cross that bridge as and when this happens

D.

DME

Get us some piccies mate 😉 I love night shots 🙂

I’ve just come back from flying around Loch Lomond, very still night, half moon with nice viz.

Next weekend it’s into the Circuit. I was quite surprised at how long it took me to get sight of the runway!

Some very nice views of Glasgow, infact I’d say navigation would be easier in certain circumstances, i.e. you can spot your next waypoint / town / road, very easily. Not so relaxing when there are no lights outside and all you see is darkness down below 😮

DME

Steve

great post, very informative, Im sure alot of people will gain something from this thanks

Dean

Go for it & the rules…

I did my night qualification a couple of years back, and as a few people have said, the experience is fantastic. Solo circuits at night over Oxford has to be seen to be believed, and the solo nav (I went all the way around Brize zone, so I could turn right in a hurry if I needed to!) was an experience not to be missed – with pretty much each waypoint clearly visible from the previous one! Remember night is from 30 mins AFTER sunset to 30 mins BEFORE sunrise, so it is really dark, although it is just possible to land at night with no airfield lighting during the summer, but generally only by a few minutes after “night”.

As far as IFR/SVFR at night goes, here goes…
If you are flying in a CTR (control zone), you need ATC permission regardless of what the weather or daylight, and you need to comply. The only change is that by UK law, VFR clearances cannot be issued at night, so your flight plan (and you need one if you’re flying in a CTR, even though you may just call it “booking out” – Rules 27 & 31 of ANO Rules of the Air) will be SVFR or IFR. In real terms, to you as a pilot, it will not make a lot of difference, except that you may get delayed longer due to ATC’s separation requirements (SVFR & IFR are separated, VFR flights are not, as I am sure you’re aware). This bit is in the Rules of the Air Rule 22. Once you are outside the CTR, you are flying IFR, as SVFR only exists inside a CTR. In real terms this means you comply with Rules 29 and 30, and if you then want to enter CAS under IFR you additionally come under Rules 31 and 32. Lost yet?

The real fun comes in the weather criteria, as ANO Schedule 8 Section 1 part 1 para 2 c ii requires 10km vis for a PPL flying under SVFR in a CTR – obviously more than you require under VFR. Part d includes the bit about night qualification, and the privileges of a night qualification are in Schedule 8 part B – Ratings.

Oh, and the good bit? ATC do not know your qualifications, and are permitted to issue SVFR CTR clearances when the visibility is above 1800m, or the cloud ceiling is 600ft or higher. If you accept this clearance, you’re outside your licence (assuming you hold a PPL – IMC or IR ratings allow variations in these minima).

Bear in mind, this lot mainly concerns flight in a CTR. If you’re flying OCAS, the ANO permits a visibility of 3km, and all you have to do is fly within rules 29 and 30 (obviously in addition to your normal rules) – the IFR minimum height rule (different to rule 5), and the quadrantal rule if flying above 3000ft or the transition altitude, whichever is the higher.

As an aside, the only difference from ATC’s viewpoint between SVFR and IFR is that a specific level cannot be issued, and the pilot is on their own navigation, rather than a heading. SVFR flights require the same separation standards (with some exemptions such as the access lanes in the London CTR) as IFR flights, which is why SVFR flights may be subject to holding outside CAS, or on the ground. The navigation thing is because ATC do not know where cloud is etc, so the pilot may have to avoid cloud and deviate from a flight path. The same is true of altitude. This is why you get stuck with a vis of 10km as a minima, to allow pilots to remain within the terms their clearance and licence. So generally, expect a clearance along the lines of “leave the zone via route A not above altitude 2000 feet, SVFR, report leaving the zone”.

It sounds horrendous – but if you read through the rules they’re common sense and should keep you safe inside CAS – outside it’s back to the mark 1 eyeball, but we all fly with that anyway, and a strobe against a dark sky is easier to see than a white aeroplane against some nice fluffy white clouds!

Enjoy flying at night, and hope this info makes some sense,
Steve.

A night rating is usefull in say the US, but piontless in the Uk.

Tell me guys, didn’t it feel a bit like your first ever solo when doing your first solo circuit at night?

Definitely. Wonderful experience. I learned a couple of things on my first solo XC at night too. Red markings on charts don’t show up under red light! I was thinking to myself ‘I know there’s a motorway on the chart here, why can’t I see it?’

OK Steve, I’ll add my views on this one as well.

I did my night rating 2 years ago and absolutely loved it, for the experience, the wonderful views, the insight into intrument flying and also the fun of learning something new and challenging.

Tell me guys, didn’t it feel a bit like your first ever solo when doing your first solo circuit at night? It really gave me goose bumps… first to line up on a lit runway, just before opening the throttle but even more when on final, knowing that, despite having done it a few times with the instructor, the timing in the flaring part is very tricky to get right.

So yes, go for it! And on top of everything else it helped me keeping my hours up through the winter.

Unfortunately due to problems with the lighting system at Thruxton, I could not renew it last year but provided they repair it this year, I’d hope to have a few flights at night.

Best experiences at night: a solo nav around Solent CTA, Portsmouth, Isle of wight… and the first I took my girlfriend flying at night: we took off just after sunset and flew through the night, she was delighted.

Enjoy then!
(However the engine failure thing is a scary thing at night)

The FAA PPL Includes a night rating but as to whether the qualification is recognised within the training for a JAR PPL is another thing, I guess ask the CFI at your airfield, I know for sure it isnt in the syllibus.
Alot of schools wont allow you to obtain the night rating without first having an IMC (Although this is not a CAA requirement) but it makes sense I guess, my flying club wont allow me to have a NR without the IMC 🙁

I Had an interesting flight today, I took off at 4:10pm from Bristol knowing sunset was imminent, before we took off the operations manager asked if I minded using my flight time to go to Dunkeswell to pick up a pilot who had landed there in the club’s ArrowIII as it had engine trouble, he said I could have the flight for free so obviously being £100 p/h I jumped at it but as it transpired I didnt have to go anyway, I was circling around Bridgewater at 4:30pm thinking Id better head home as the sun was setting, I got clearance to enter Bristol zone for rejoin and told to hold at the end of the downwind leg “until advised”, well by this time Bristol City was lit up, the sun was gone, the Anti Collision beacon was lighting up my wings and I was still holding, then they announced an emergency flight coming in, well it was the ArrowIII from Dunkeswell, Im thinking “okaaay” its kind of pretty dark here and I havent got a night rating, everything was lit up, it was gone 5 oclock, the Easyjets were coming and going at a rate and I still couldnt get clearance, well eventually I was cleared to Finals No 1 but an EZY was taking off so I was told minimum 2 mile final, well its now gone 5pm and basically it was dark and again, no night rating, if I had diverted it WOULD have been night, had I came in and held for 5 minutes for a few commercials I would have been ok, the flight with the emergency obviously held me up for alot longer than anticipated.
I guess what Im saying is yes in some circumstances a night rating would be an absolute godsend, there would have been no stress on my part to get the plane on the ground so I wouldnt hesitate to get the rating, and yes the views are absolutely stunning.

Dean