Nimrod wings for Comet?

Yes, we still have the tailplanes – not sure what happened to the fin parts and rudder though – I have a feeling they got junked by mistake when I wasnt around.

Bruce

As has been said, the wings from a 4-series Comet wouldn’t fit. Besides, I think the corrosion on the mounting points is too far advanced for that if memory serves me right.

Herewith a selection of photos I took 20 years ago (:eek:) showing the cabin area after I, with the help of the late Ray Gall, had spent an entire (and very cold) winter painting the cabin and cockpit floors and the first class area structure ready for opening to the public at Easter. The colour image is a view from the cockpit looking aft towards the galley and first class area (the cokpit door is slid open up into the roof).

In early 1990 Ray, Dave Hill, Emma Hill and myself went to RAE Farnborough to start dismantling the tail section of former RAE Comet 2E XN453 (G-AMXD) which had been cut off and put to one side for MAM (at it still was then) with a view to grafting it onto F-BGNX. With hindsight it would have been a hell of a job, but not helped by the fact that in the storms of late 1987 the entire tail section was hurled into the air and over a 10ft high fence, sadly losing a few feet off the starboard tailplane and damaging the top of the fin in the process. Once we had removed the upper fin Roger Duffell transported the rest back to Salisbury Hall on one of his trucks. In the colour shot you can see the upper fin, the rudder and the squashed remains of part of the rear fuselage which we found at the RAE fire station.

Do any parts of the structure still exist, Bruce?

Happy days!

Cheers

Lee

I do but cant seem to put them up atm

Not offhand – I’ll have a look!

Bruce

Bruce, do you have any pictures you can share of the inside?

What you need to know about the Comet at Salisbury Hall is this:

It is a shell – every nut, bolt, connector, hydraulic line – every seat, instrument, panel, overhead and so on is missing – all removed when it was prepared to be placed in the tank.

It can never be anything other than it is, without a huge amount of time and money, and then it is the subject of a huge amount of interpretation.

Better to conserve it and leave it as it is I feel.

Bruce

From the other side of the world it seems Bruce and others are right, a stripped Comet 1 fuselage mated to “nearly” the same Nimrod wings still wont be a “real” Comet 1, and to wreck the Comet 2 to have a stripped Comet 1 fuselage mated to “nearly” the same Comet 2 wings apparantly kills the last Comet 2 and still wont produce a “real” Comet 1.

It would be better to put the efforts into preserving “real” and “rare” heritage – the Comet 2, than to recreate/mockup heritage with a hybrid Comet 1 “mogrel”.

The Comet 1 fuselage is still a “real” and “rare” artifact as it is.

regards

Mark Pilkington

What you need to know about the Comet at Salisbury Hall is this:

It is a shell – every nut, bolt, connector, hydraulic line – every seat, instrument, panel, overhead and so on is missing – all removed when it was prepared to be placed in the tank.

It can never be anything other than it is, without a huge amount of time and money, and then it is the subject of a huge amount of interpretation.

Better to conserve it and leave it as it is I feel.

Bruce

Id never noticed how much was added to the engine bays for the speys… funny the things you miss… 🙂

Zeb

Ok.. im probably going to be considered a heretic here… but surely the effort in making Mk4 wings into Mk 1 wings could be better expended in saving a Mk 2…?

We have a Mk1 at Cosford… surely 2 correct machines of different mark’s is better than 1 correct, 1 *******ised Mk1/Mk4/Nimrod hybrid and some scrap metal…?

Zeb

I’m with you on that.
I don’t know how much I can say at the moment, but I do know that serious surveys have been made into the C.2 in the past few months, and that our national museum has turned it down on structural grounds. Personally I think it’s a case of the Comet being poor, but possibly saveable by someone (with much means and money sadly) NOW.

The Nimrod wings are one step further evolved from the Comet 4, in that the engines are RR Speys, with much larger intakes and trunking. Outboard of the engines, they are similar, but have a different shape of trailing edge (from the 1/2). Have another look at the drawings and photgraphs and you see how different they actually are.

Even a C2 wing differs from a mk 1 in that the C2 has ‘toed out’ sweep on the engines at the trailing edge, whereas the 1 had straight through engine mountings. (notwithstanding some changes on the leading edge shape as well as the intakes)

There would be a LOT if tin bashing and scratchbuilding to make a Comet 1 wing out of a Nimrod

My point exactly…
I know the details differ but a complete (if incorrect in details that would go unnoticed by 95% of the public) early Comet would be a nice thing to have.

I agree it would be a nice thing to have, but I also can’t help thinking that for a similar amount of effort you could save the C.2 in it’s entirety. It would be interesting to have some expert opinion on how the two projects would compare in this respect.

Edited to say I agree with Zebedee!

Ps. I think one of the reasons why the scrapping of the C.2 is being talked about is because of corrosion in the wing centre section, which is the bit the ‘conversionists’ would have to save anyway.

Ok.. im probably going to be considered a heretic here… but surely the effort in making Mk4 wings into Mk 1 wings could be better expended in saving a Mk 2…?

We have a Mk1 at Cosford… surely 2 correct machines of different mark’s is better than 1 correct, 1 *******ised Mk1/Mk4/Nimrod hybrid and some scrap metal…?

Zeb

However, if it means that a fair representation of an early Comet is the result and the airframe is saved, then go for it.
Anon.

My point exactly…
I know the details differ but a complete (if incorrect in details that would go unnoticed by 95% of the public) early Comet would be a nice thing to have.

Ooops…!

Apologies… cant believe i got that wrong… shall take myself out and have myself shot immedietly…

😀

Back to thread though.. apparently removing the length from the fuselage was regretted later on… and is the reason for the additional area added to the vertical stabiliser…

Zeb

Goblins?

Sorry, being a bit pedantic here but the early Comet aircraft had the de-Havilland Ghost 50 Mk.1 engine, not the Goblin.

On the subject of the thread: I would think the mating of a Nimrod wing to a Comet would be a massive job. However, if it means that a fair representation of an early Comet is the result and the airframe is saved, then go for it.

Beware though; lots of heavy engineering and alterations.

The very first airline Comets were beautiful aircraft. It is such a pity about the accidents that befell several of the aircraft due to a design error, which allowed the Americans to forge ahead with their designs.

Anon.

The Nimrod is basically a shortened Comet 4C, with an unpressurised panier hung off the original fuselage.

All the Mr1 and Mr2 Nimrods still have their original wings, the MRA4 whilst aerodynamically the same I believe relies on BAe’s experience designing wings for Airbus in construction.

As for retrofitting… the Mk4 wing is similar outboard but the centre section is quite different, especially the on the trailing edge and engine section which in the Mk1 had to accommodate fat centrifugal flow Goblins…

A more realistic option would simply be to strip of the panier and convert the Nimrod back to being a Comet…

Admittedly it would be slightly short with an odd fin and no windows…

Zeb

The Lyneham Comet has been discussed before …..

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=91279&highlight=Comet+Lyneham

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=94624&highlight=Comet+Lyneham

Aldertag is right. The engines on the 2 marks would make it a huge task, not impossible but a huge task. The Mk 1 at DHAHC would also need a tail feathers to make it look complete on the outside. though i would love to see her back on wheels 🙂 one can dream.

I think again the wings wouldn’t quite match, the C.2 had RR Avons whereas the 1’s had the Dh Ghosts. This meant a wing root re-design, and although the C.2 wings might just fit a C.1 fuselage, I think it would still be noticeable.

In addition, the Lyneham Comet is the very last C.2 anywhere, and it would be a shame to see it broken up. 🙁

And sadly the Lyneham C.2 looks like it will end up as bits.

If sadly true, that could provide most of the necessary bits…fin, uc, etc.