No depths these boys wont plumb….

I suspect the crimes listed in kev’s opening paragraph are not unique to the members or supporters of the BNP.

Kev, has to be one of the best, most to the point, responses i have come across in a long time!

and i think we can guess how these ar***oles do on Hitler’s birthday….

I totally agree.

…. without any concept of honour, respect, morality or humanity. I can’t help wondering just how such an organisation marks Hitler’s birthday.

Regards,

kev35

nicely put.

Baz

Kev, has to be one of the best, most to the point, responses i have come across in a long time!

and i think we can guess how these ar***oles do on Hitler’s birthday….

tornado64.

Believe it or not, both parts of my posting are linked. The point here is that a legitimate political party are honouring the dead of Japan. Not only those killed in combat or battle, but those who were executed for war crimes. In effect, the BNP is linking itself to a Country who in the past showed no honour and in the present shows no remorse. Would you agree with the erection of a shrine or memorial to the likes of Fred West, Harold Shipman, Peter Sutcliffe or Ian Huntley? Sixty years cannot divorce Japan from the simple fact that they continue to honour murderers in the same way as they do the ordinary soldier, sailor or airman. They cannot divorce themselves from the simple fact that a society founded on the concept of honour still honours those who served the Empire without any vestige of honour. I believe they never will.

What this shameful episode involving a representative of the BNP visiting Yakusuni has done is to confirm they are an organisation without any concept of honour, respect, morality or humanity. I can’t help wondering just how such an organisation marks Hitler’s birthday.

Regards,

kev35

but then it can be legitamably debated if the bombing of dresden was a necessary act too !!

But do you have any response to Kev’s first point, as to whether “a party such as the BNP, with all the attendant criminality of its members and their avowed adherence to racism (described by them as Nationalism) should be given any credence whatsoever?“

It’s a fair question, and you seem to have dodged it.

but then it can be legitamably debated if the bombing of dresden was a necessary act too !!

Go read Frederick Taylor’s book on Dresden. Then come back with an informed opinion.

Rich

but then it can be legitamably debated if the bombing of dresden was a necessary act too !!

Ahhh …that old chestnut :rolleyes:

but then it can be legitamably debated if the bombing of dresden was a necessary act too !!

yet we and others honour ours

war is dirty whatever side it is

lots of innocents were murdered in vietnam as well

There are two issues here.

The BNP, a far right organisation (not sure how much farther they could go), are, rightly or wrongly, considered to be a legally established political movement within the UK. A quick trawl of the internet shows that various members of the party (or those claiming to be members or have links to the party) have, over the years, been charged and convicted of the following:

Murder.
Paedophilia.
Racial and Religious harrassment.
Racially motivated/aggravated assult.
Common assault.
Threatening behaviour.
Arson.
Posession of imitation firearms.
Posession of firearms.
Posession of explosives.
Posession of Class A drugs.
Fraud.
Violent disorder.
Criminal damage.
Racially aggravated criminal damage.

Before we get to the issue of whose dead are remembered and how, does tornado64 consider that a party such as the BNP, with all the attendant criminality of its members and their avowed adherence to racism (described by them as Nationalism) should be given any credence whatsoever?

the war is now a lifetime away !!
whilst not forgetting ours we should also remember other people died

The war is a lifetime away, but please try and remember that some of those who fought it are still alive. You should also consider how some of those people died. I don’t believe the Allied Nations were responsible for the industrialised and highly efficient slaughter of over 6 million Jews and others who were considered to be Untermenschen. I think you’ll find it is hard to forget that other people died, but you have to consider what Yasukuni is and what it means to the Japanese people.

most people now weren’t even there so it is time to draw a line

But where do we draw the line? Who sets the timescale? Britain abolished slave trade in 1807 with the final abolition of slavery in 1833. Wasn’t it in 2006 that Tony Blair apologised (on our behalf) for slavery. So is 200 years an appropriate time? When you learn of the horrors inflicted by the Japanese, and their continued refusal to acknowledge them, you tend to worry when a legitimate British political party is seen to be honouring those who showed no honour. George Santayana wrote that “those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

Yasukuni is a shrine in which are remembered the spirits of all those who died in the service of the Emperor. The spirits are called Kami and it is said that when enshrined the spirits are absolved permanently of all negative or evil acts. The Kami of all of those convicted of war crimes are also enshrined here. This honoured place of rest, revered by the Japanese, in no way reflects the horrors inflicted in the name of the Empire. Hundreds of thousands of murders, rape of women and children, cannibalism, starvation, torture, beatings. All in breach of conventions which the Japanese had signed up to (NOT the Geneva Convention). The shrine also houses a Museum in which one of the railway engines from Thailand has been bought across and preserved. A Japanese Officer said at the start of the Burma/Siam railway project that it would be completed even if it cost the life of one prisoner or Chinese labourer for every sleeper. I have read that it worked out at approximately one life for every metre of track laid. Perhaps even more chilling is the fact that the Kempeitai even have a Memorial at Yasukuni. Eric Lomax wrote that it is akin to having a Memorial to the Gestapo housed in a Cathedral.

You are of course right in that we should remember that others died. I think we are also beholden to remember the ways by which they lived.

Regards,

kev35

You’ll certainly not find this individual claiming what a wonderful record on human rights the UK has, and neither did I allude to that in my post. I do not have an issue with any of the points that you raise. The thread that roadracer posted states ‘No depths these boys won’t plumb…..’ and I don’t think that there are. IMO the UKs record on human rights as well as those of other countries merits a thread all its own.

Just a load of attention seeking and deluded individuals. I used to see them all the time when my friends and I were on the Anti-Nazi League marches in the 70s/early 80s. You have to feel sorry for them…………actually, no you don’t. I wonder if they stopped off in North Korea on their way home to congratulate their regime and its marvellous record on human rights and its outlook on other countries and the people who live in them.

ok so lets talk about the u.k.’s present perfect human rights

a prisoner who has murdered schoolgirls is allowed to sue for compensation and lives in perfect kept comfort

whilst a squaddie who lost his legs in afghanistan lost government bennefits because he could walk one or two steps assisted

good to know we are so perfect isn’t it !!

human rights !!! ******** !!

Just a load of attention seeking and deluded individuals. I used to see them all the time when my friends and I were on the Anti-Nazi League marches in the 70s/early 80s. You have to feel sorry for them…………actually, no you don’t. I wonder if they stopped off in North Korea on their way home to congratulate their regime and its marvellous record on human rights and its outlook on other countries and the people who live in them.

And we should also remember that life was harsher in those days T64 !!
Anything we did to other countries usually pales into insignificance compared to what some countries (or even their own countrymen :rolleyes:) did !
Armchair/revisionist history is a dodgy soapbox to talk from 😉

the war is now a lifetime away !!
whilst not forgetting ours we should also remember other people died

most people now weren’t even there so it is time to draw a line

unless of course you delve further back in history to discover the british involvement in the potato famine

the british letting and contributing to indians deaths in the raj

slavery ( much of britain and the u.s. were built on it

and of course the good old british invention of the concentration camp !!

before critiscising others history , we should remember our own !!

Ah well, there’s no harm in creating good relations and building a bridge to Japanese hearts (as long as it isn’t in Burma).