No end in sight?

I suspect that Old Shape represents a helluva lot of people, more timid than he to express their views on the current state of the UK.

I think there is deep sense of loathing for the government and a great deal of suspicion of the likelihood of the opposition having the guts to change much. Hence the recent poll results.

There is little of the optimism, if any, of the type Bumblebee mentioned because most people feel they have nothing to feel optimistic about. It is dawning on most people that the last 12 years have left us in very, very deep poo and many of us we will go to our graves without seeing much change. Not a prospect I relish.:mad:

Well I reckon people my age have done all right – born just after the war,grew up with the NHS,free university education,full employment,got on the property ladder easily enough and so on.
In many ways the 1960s were a bit of a golden age when there really was a spirit of optimism that seems totally impossible these days.

Apart from the generation above us, who were moaning that our behaviour, free love and all that, would bring the country down. 🙂

If you can’t see the humour in a Sir Jeremy Clarkson type exaggeration…

Fair comment…..but I think one-or-two of us around here find it difficult to tell when you are joking! 🙂

Ludicrous! :rolleyes:

Do you seriously think that the UK alone can afford to spend $16,250 BILLION (yes, billion dollars) on defence when in 2009 the total world spend on defence was less than $1500 billion?

How will this be paid for? :confused: Almost every other measure you have suggested will reduce government income.

Between the ignorance and the apathy I’m beginning to think we have the government we deserve in this country! 😡

BUT JUST THINK OF THE WEAPONRY!!!!!

BTW, Croaking Door, you need to lighten up and get out more. If you can’t see the humour in a Sir Jeremy Clarkson type exaggeration then things may be getting a bit tense. If one is expected to post precise and exact figures on what is a general discussion internet forum, on a thread which can by default be full of lies (It’s Politics!) then “Jack would be a dull boy”.
No offense my friend, but sheesh. The country has a joke Government policed by a joke system. We should all join in, because the only way to change that lot is a coup, and we’re British, we don’t do that. (Unless we are funding certain mercenaries to overthrow certain African states of course)

Cloud 9 If you can tell me which generation in the past,has been happy with everything, that they have lived through, then it will be easier to answer your question.

Well I reckon people my age have done all right – born just after the war,grew up with the NHS,free university education,full employment,got on the property ladder easily enough and so on.
In many ways the 1960s were a bit of a golden age when there really was a spirit of optimism that seems totally impossible these days.

Ok, so there are several threads floating around the site with various bits of bad news regarding strikes/delays and the general economic woes…so I would like to pose a question…

How do we get ourselves (as in the country!) out of this current mess?

Seems that unemployment is rising because companies are going bust, workers who are employed are going on strike because they are unhappy at the measures being implemented to try and save jobs/money, and in general it doesnt matter what people try to do, someone somewhere has something to complain about it for some reason or other, and its just a vicious circle with no end in sight…

Does anyone have any realistic/reasonable solutions?

Cloud 9 If you can tell me which generation in the past,has been happy with everything, that they have lived through, then it will be easier to answer your question.

Sadly making things, using people and skills and then selling them has become a totally alien concept to UK government of all colours over the last 25 years or so.

What have we put in place of manufacturing, certainly nothing of substance: the “financial services industry”, call centres and the property market? Have any of them given us steady employment or a sustainable wealth stream…..I don’t see much evidence of either of those.

We as country just think short term: two examples spring to mind: politicians, they only worry about getting re-elected nothing long term for them and the stock market which again only concerns itself with short term gain.

Well there my five pen’eth….!!!

Planemike

Yes, the subject no political party, even those in opposition, dare mention!

Yes back when we actually produced stuff ourselves,one of the topics on the news was our ‘Balance of Payments’ (ie import v export)…never hear anything about it now…it would make dire reading thats for sure.

Well in the 80s it was decided that we would become a ‘service’ nation …Banking , Insurance, Etc. Suits n Ties ….the Old stuff Manufacturing Steel Coal ,Engineering could be done by other third world countries with cheap a unskilled workforce …. I think someone *********up somewhere along the line now we have lots of unemployed Intelligent workpeople who can’t make a baked bean can ! who’s jobs can be done by computers or some third world labour force with Intelligent ‘ex’ Bean can Makers .

Ludicrous! :rolleyes:

Do you seriously think that the UK alone can afford to spend $16,250 BILLION (yes, billion dollars) on defence when in 2009 the total world spend on defence was less than $1500 billion?

How will this be paid for? :confused: Almost every other measure you have suggested will reduce government income.

Between the ignorance and the apathy I’m beginning to think we have the government we deserve in this country! 😡

I misread his proposal. I thought it was 25%. If it wasn’t then it should have been.

(4) Increase defence spending 25,000% – We should be “The arsenal of democracy” – and the Defence industry spins-off dozens of other industries and inventions etc.

Ludicrous! :rolleyes:

Do you seriously think that the UK alone can afford to spend $16,250 BILLION (yes, billion dollars) on defence when in 2009 the total world spend on defence was less than $1500 billion?

How will this be paid for? :confused: Almost every other measure you have suggested will reduce government income.

Between the ignorance and the apathy I’m beginning to think we have the government we deserve in this country! 😡

I feel an “old shape for Prime Minister!” campaign coming on?!:D:diablo:

From a selection of his recent contributions – why not? We certainly couldn’t do any worse.:D

(1) Petrol/Derv to 45p a litre, in order to drive the economy.
(1a) Road tax to be £120 for all vehicles up to 2 tonne, £400 after. Motorbikes will have to suffer the £120.
(2) VAT to 15% to make us just a tad liking to Yerp.
(3) Removal of the Social Benefits system to ALL immigrants (Unless they have contributed to the NI for 10 years or brought enough cash in) – Because we are a meal-ticket laughing stock.
(4) Increase defence spending 25,000% – We should be “The arsenal of democracy” – and the Defence industry spins-off dozens of other industries and inventions etc.
(5) Scrap the tax banding system, EVERYBODY pays 22% of all wage after the minimum stop-gap, perhaps add 9% for the NI contribution – admin costs plummet, we all know where we stand. It also encourages entreprenneurs to stay.
(6) Kill Brown – because it makes sense.
(7) To pay for the above we just simply put Businessmen in charge of the Ministry departments instead of complete and utter idiots. It will stop waste immediately, for instance Town Twinning. It has served nothing, benefited only those that have travelled. It’s as much use as a blokes nipple.
(8) Local Government / L. Authority waste (I once read) could pay for a new Hospital AND a Squadron of Typhoons every month.

I feel an “old shape for Prime Minister!” campaign coming on?!:D:diablo:

(1) Petrol/Derv to 45p a litre, in order to drive the economy.
(1a) Road tax to be £120 for all vehicles up to 2 tonne, £400 after. Motorbikes will have to suffer the £120.
(2) VAT to 15% to make us just a tad liking to Yerp.
(3) Removal of the Social Benefits system to ALL immigrants (Unless they have contributed to the NI for 10 years or brought enough cash in) – Because we are a meal-ticket laughing stock.
(4) Increase defence spending 25,000% – We should be “The arsenal of democracy” – and the Defence industry spins-off dozens of other industries and inventions etc.
(5) Scrap the tax banding system, EVERYBODY pays 22% of all wage after the minimum stop-gap, perhaps add 9% for the NI contribution – admin costs plummet, we all know where we stand. It also encourages entreprenneurs to stay.
(6) Kill Brown – because it makes sense.
(7) To pay for the above we just simply put Businessmen in charge of the Ministry departments instead of complete and utter idiots. It will stop waste immediately, for instance Town Twinning. It has served nothing, benefited only those that have travelled. It’s as much use as a blokes nipple.
(8) Local Government / L. Authority waste (I once read) could pay for a new Hospital AND a Squadron of Typhoons every month.

Change the government? Things can only get better, right…..now where have we heard that before? :rolleyes:

Don’t get me wrong I agree it is time for a change but whoever is running the country will still be left with the problems created by the last administration, and the one before that. Successive governments have managed to ‘paint the country into a corner’ and there are no quick fixes for that situation.

Cut taxes? Well it would be popular but the country is in debt and everything still has to be paid for so the country needs to get the money from somewhere…..any suggestions?

Solutions?

Well I’m a simple man (that didn’t come out right :o)…..what I mean is I’d like to simplify the way of looking at this problem.

Assume money cannot be created or destroyed but only passes from person to person so the only way to lose money is to buy something and the only way to gain money is to sell something (or our services, but it is still selling something).

If we in this country want to prosper we have to sell stuff. While selling stuff to each other may make individuals within the country richer (and others poorer) it doesn’t change the total value of the money within the country. So who should we sell stuff to?

If we sell stuff to other countries we get richer and the other countries get poorer. Brilliant! (And simple.) 🙂

If we think only in these terms the country must prosper.

The only problem is that I can’t remember the last time any government in this country understood this principal! 😡

Change the government?:dev2: Examine the periods when the world was in positive economic growth and compare everything (including population figures etc) with what is on the go now? Are there countries not in recession right now?

New government, new ideas, cut taxes to encourage individuals and businesses, give back people responsibility for their lives, culture change, social change…..

Simplistic, obvious and utterly unattainable solutions in the short term We are in a very, very big hole and it will be years before we dig ourselves out of it.:mad:(