no Japanese ICBMs — for the time being

Yes just as you regarded native american as savages and called the eskimos or indians. Please we can continue this forever, so for the sake of avoiding an continuing argument we should regard the organized Japanese attacks against china as Piracy. .

Now now, since when did i ever call indians and eskimo’s as savages, please show me a post where I said that.

And to the chinese at the time the only Japanese is Pirates

don’t you think that it applies to japanese at this time too 😉

Historically Japan have always been hostile toward China, can’t really blame them having been so small of a mountainous country, glancing a wealthy neighbour

of course, since you insist on using history as a basis to justify your claims..we then bring up another thing you said

FYI we are only talking about the coastal area so please stay on topic! Can’t ignore the fact that Japanese were pirates!

so what’s the difference between a barbarian looting and pillaging a village versus a pirate looting and pillaging a village. besides.. some of them invaded China before WWII 😮 😉

I guess that means you’d have problems with them developing first strike capabilities eh?

You brought up the subject of the possibility other pirates.
I have to correct your views. FYI we are only talking about the coastal area so please stay on topic! Can’t ignore the fact that Japanese were pirates!

no shiet sherlock, no one ever denied the Japanese were pirates except your assumptions, which you tend to do. Of course it they were not the only pirates..

the Chinese seemed to have a hard time differentiating Koreans from Japanese and i quote

“”Ming Shi”, in the section on Japan, claimed that after first Ming Emperor Taizu quelled Fang Guozhen & Zhang SHicheng factions, remnant rebels fled to the islands in the sea and then harassed the coastal Shandong Prov. (There was no differentiation of Chinese rebels from Korean or Japanese pirates here. “Ming Shi”, in lumping Lin Daoqian’s banditry under Japanese pirates in Taiwan, pointed to the collusion between Chinese and Japanese. “

not to mention that the Chinese had their own sets of pirates, ever heard of General Zheng Zhilong? 😉

of course, some fail to look beyond one era and nation, to realize that ships with mal-intention came from other regions in other time periods, and i quote

“Emperor Daoguang decided that British must be punished for their pirate acts”

:rolleyes:

Chinese have a garason on it, Japan have nada
both PRC and RoC have forces in the Spratley.

so you admit that before the occupation of these rocks, it wasn’t populated? perhaps Japan should do the same then 😉

The Island Japan that claims only surface after the high tide! It’s nothing like the Spratley!

so you say that there are no rocks in the spratleys that are submerged during high tide? please, I’m dying to know which rocks/islands these are since you seem to know about every island.

Typo and sadly everyone makes mistakes…

sadly, you make many 🙁

Isn’t WW2 bad enough?It’s called world war for a reason! I think they killed more ppl in ww2 than in almost all of the conflicts china fought!

mind you both china and US never fought any real wars… it’s called police conflict.

but you said:

The US army is only effective in the gulf war because there wasn’t really any casulties… had some 10K soldiers died in that war than the US would have pulled out due to internal political pressure imposed by the populus.

and

Had the war lasted another 4 more years and the death toll rises dramatically, I believe the democrats would be in place of the republicans and end the useless war…

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=528625&highlight=war#post528625

among others, so is it a war or is it a police conflict? stop flip flopping on me senator hallo!

in any case, stop avoiding the subject and answer the question.. how many armed conflicts with foreign nations had China had after the end of WWII and how many did Japan have? 😉

Canadians are special because we have both english and french living in the same country! Yet we still see some distinct confrontations. Europe is much worse off.

such as? if Haley was here, he’d smack you for mentioning Canada in such a degrading way

As an overseas Chinese, the lesson I learned on the Japanese atrocities of WW2 has been that every human has the potential to carry out extremely horrible deeds. Not just the Japanese. And so we will have to keep ourselves in check and remember WW2, not to condemn the Japs, but to remind ourselves never to commit such horrors. Their actions just showed us what horrors we (yes, you and me) are capable of.

Sadly, my impression of Mainland Chinese is that their lessons drawn was that Japanese are an ‘evil’ race, and so they continue looking at Japanese with hatred and distrust. In fact, after looking at some of the more extremist Mainland Chinese outbursts, I believe that my point of view is only confirmed – some of the Mainland Chinese are really morphing into the ‘vile beasts’ that they accuse the Japanese of. They cannot seem to get over the fact that WW2 happened 3 generations ago. (And China only recently accused Japan of having a Cold War mentality, who’s the one having a WW2 mentality, I wonder?)

its pure stupidity to judge an entire nation based on the views of a few ppl (unless these ppl are elected leaders of that nation).

the vast majority of chinese dont hate the japanese. they just dont trust them or dislike them. and there is good reason to that.

as the old saying goes, ‘once bitten twice shy’. china has been ‘bitten’ badly by the japanese, and the japanese has given china little reason to warm to, or even trust them ever since.

most ppl in japan seems to get the idea that if they just forget about what they done, then soon everyone else will forget as well, and a few ppl like u are proving them right. :rolleyes:

just trying to sweep the thing under the carpet and forget about it is not the action of someone who is truly sorry for what they’ve done, nor is it the best way to ensure that future generations do not make the same mistakes.

most chinese dislike the japanese not because they hate them for what was done in WWII ( because extremely few ppl that saw the attrocities first hand are still alive), but because there is zero evidence that many japanese truely feels sorry for what was done, or even feel that what happened was wrong. and most chinese dont trust the japanese because we feel they are capable of doing it all again.

i’ve studied in china, and know first hand what is being taught in chinese classrooms, and its not the ‘all japanese are bad’ brainwashing western and japanese media tries to suggest, just a collection of facts (the numbers might be different from western history books, but the events are pretty much the same, i’ve checked.). its the facts that are making some chinese anti-japanese, not the method of teaching.

if there are a small proportion of the chinese population that are extreme anti-japanese, then thats not china’s fault. its japan’s. :rolleyes:

As an overseas Chinese, the lesson I learned on the Japanese atrocities of WW2 has been that every human has the potential to carry out extremely horrible deeds. Not just the Japanese. And so we will have to keep ourselves in check and remember WW2, not to condemn the Japs, but to remind ourselves never to commit such horrors. Their actions just showed us what horrors we (yes, you and me) are capable of.

Sadly, my impression of Mainland Chinese is that their lessons drawn was that Japanese are an ‘evil’ race, and so they continue looking at Japanese with hatred and distrust. In fact, after looking at some of the more extremist Mainland Chinese outbursts, I believe that my point of view is only confirmed – some of the Mainland Chinese are really morphing into the ‘vile beasts’ that they accuse the Japanese of. They cannot seem to get over the fact that WW2 happened 3 generations ago. (And China only recently accused Japan of having a Cold War mentality, who’s the one having a WW2 mentality, I wonder?)

Well… your concerns are noted… but it is without bases!
We do not base our view of the Japanese solely on history but upon the action of its people! Japanese have a mentality that praise the victor and to him goes all the spoils. According to the Japanese that would be the Americans, so as to modernize Japan most Japanese learn to speak English, they learned the ways of the west. But other Asian are of another story…Japanese regard them as the weaklings that are not to be regarded as on the same level! This mentality is evident throughout Japanese society. Japanese thus led to believe that what they did in WW2 wasn’t infect atrocity but an act of nature where the weak fall prey to the strong! Why does this sound so familiar???

And how are the Chinese morphing into the ‘vile beasts’ you claim???
Did we murder innocent civilians??? Did we conduct Biological and Chemical test on the POWs??? Did we conduct germ warfare??? Did we lie to our people about what we did and did not do in WW2??? Did we claim 50 years after the war that the People we killed in WW2 were for the good of those people???

Don’t forget the Victims of WW2 have not yet all passed away so I wouldn’t call it a long time ago!!! That’s why the JFK file is not yet to be declassified for another 70years, not all of the parties involved are diseased.

81 days is kinda short and even if a rudementary fissile device is detonated does not demonstrate the combat readyness and the possible deployment of such a weapon. Japan has yet to build a reliable rocket! H2 comes into serives in 2007???

Although I cannot recall the exat time frame I am sure it was within 85 days. However this was for a warhead not a delivery system.

As an overseas Chinese, the lesson I learned on the Japanese atrocities of WW2 has been that every human has the potential to carry out extremely horrible deeds. Not just the Japanese. And so we will have to keep ourselves in check and remember WW2, not to condemn the Japs, but to remind ourselves never to commit such horrors. Their actions just showed us what horrors we (yes, you and me) are capable of.

Sadly, my impression of Mainland Chinese is that their lessons drawn was that Japanese are an ‘evil’ race, and so they continue looking at Japanese with hatred and distrust. In fact, after looking at some of the more extremist Mainland Chinese outbursts, I believe that my point of view is only confirmed – some of the Mainland Chinese are really morphing into the ‘vile beasts’ that they accuse the Japanese of. They cannot seem to get over the fact that WW2 happened 3 generations ago. (And China only recently accused Japan of having a Cold War mentality, who’s the one having a WW2 mentality, I wonder?)

If you win the lottery let me know, I’ll be building a bomb shelter 😀

deal, if i win the jockpot, i’ll give u £10,000. 😀

but wouldnt u like to spend that on a nice pool and/or car instead of some crampy old bomb shelter? :confused: :diablo:

A nuclear shield is only effective if the holder if the shield is really prepared to use it.

Would America really commit to a M.A.D. war with China over Japan?

It is the whole Cold War New York for Hamburg syndrome all over again.

Wether or not it is right or wrong, Japan is western and an allied of the west and America. Although Japan would be advised against such development it would not have the same level of action taken against it as somewhere like Iran or Iraq. Same, although alot more so, with Israel.

Incidentally Japan did conduct a study regarding their ability to construct a nuclear warhead. It reported that it would take a very short time to do so and they gave a very precise number of days, something like 81 days!!!

Japan was a western allie only as a stepping stone in the cold war.
Cold war having now demolished along with USSR, Japan lost somewhat of its tactical importance!
Japan would face same consiquence.
Being an a non nato ally Japan would not be facing as harsh a US led pressure but a Chinese economic pressure…
Please take note that recently Japan has sluggered out of it Stagnation
only because of increasing trade with China, not because it solved the problem of its uncompetitive industries!

81 days is kinda short and even if a rudementary fissile device is detonated does not demonstrate the combat readyness and the possible deployment of such a weapon. Japan has yet to build a reliable rocket! H2 comes into serives in 2007???

And japan isn’t under the US nuclear shield? American nukes are pointed at Iran, why are the iranians denied this. Your argument don’t make sense! If you say Iran has agressive tendencies than what makes you think Japan have none?

Why is there internation pressure only on Iran? I ‘m only saying that if Japan developes nukes or long range missiles it should theoretically face the same consequence as Iran, therefor Japan should not enjoy a first strike capability.

A nuclear shield is only effective if the holder if the shield is really prepared to use it.

Would America really commit to a M.A.D. war with China over Japan?

It is the whole Cold War New York for Hamburg syndrome all over again.

Wether or not it is right or wrong, Japan is western and an allied of the west and America. Although Japan would be advised against such development it would not have the same level of action taken against it as somewhere like Iran or Iraq. Same, although alot more so, with Israel.

Incidentally Japan did conduct a study regarding their ability to construct a nuclear warhead. It reported that it would take a very short time to do so and they gave a very precise number of days, something like 81 days!!!

the possibility of a chinese nuclear attack are about as remote as me winning the lottery this week.

If you win the lottery let me know, I’ll be building a bomb shelter 😀

Well, it might make North Korea or China think twice abotu sending a weapon Japan’s way in a time of conflict. There is something to be said for deterrence. Also, I am a supporter of the idea of using ICBMs to deliver PGMs as quick-response weapons. Would the argument here be different if Japan were developing this sort of capability as opposed to nuclear armed missiles?

well, first off, if NK ever send anything with more radiation then an x-ray at japan, the US would glass NK in retaliation. so the detterrence is already there and any japanese nuclear capacity is just redendent.

as for china. well, aside from china’s none-nuclear first strike promise. there is still the possible US detterance factor to consider. but in general, dispite the widespread dislike for japanese amounst chinese, the only likely conflict between the two would be a limited war, over island disputes. it is extremely unlikely that such a conflict would ever escelate into a full scale war, never mind a nuclear one.

as for using ICBMs to deliver PGMs, well, apart from the obvious problem of there being no such technology at present. there is also the incredably big probablity for misinterpretating such a move.

if u are only using PGMs, u would need to fire off quite a few of them to make any sort of meaningful impact (even with MRVs). but what is the other guy going to think looking at dosens of ICBMs coming his way on radar? and would would be his likely response (hint: what are u going to think if u see dozens of chinese ICBMs coming at america)?

with such a capacity, its quite likely that japan might shoot a couple of PGMs at airfeilds only to find all its cities destroyed in response. and the world community is likely to see it only as a tragic misinterpritation of motive, and may even be secretly glad that it didnt lead to WWIII and a global nuclear war. hell, if japan really did develop such a PGM delivery capacity, its concivable that others might try to manipulate it into giving them a chance to nuke japan without consequence. 😮

theres also the cost involved. using ICBMs to fire PGMs would be extremely expensive. so its more cost effective to develop cruise missiles.

You know, that’s a good point. I didn’t really look at it from that angle. Maybe they want a nuclear deterrent to hang over Moscow’s head as a bargaining chip for the Sakhalin Island (I think that’s the right chain) dispute? Just an off the wall thought. I’m good at those 😀

hmm, might also want to look the other direction. :dev2: as the old saying goes, ‘ there are no eternal friends or enemies, only interest is eternal.’

PS, so am i. 😀

Perhaps that’s exactly the kind of response we’d want to be thrown about in diplomatic circles. It might serve to rid the area of nuclear arms entirely, although I don’t think China would ever agree to something like that.

well, china would probably welcome such a move if the US, russia, UK, france, india, pakistan and israel all agreed to get rid of all their nukes as well. would save china a fortune years to come as then it would not need to develop a true MAD capacity against the US in the future. :diablo:

Were China to retaliate, it’s also possible that the USA would impose similar sanctions on China. You can also bet on an NMD facility being erected in Japan were this to happen.

possible but unlikely. the US would be just as unhappy to see a nuclear japan as china. it did nuke japan after all. so chances are, the US is likely to stand with china on this and threaten economic consquences if japan went nuclear.

as for NMD, well japan is already a member of the TMD, which is just a big NMD covering half the globe as opposed to just the US as the case of NMD. so little change there.

actually, if japan did go nuclear, chances are the US would kick it out of TMD. as i doubt the US would like to see anyone with the ability to both shoot nukes at it and also to detroy retaliating US nukes. even more so if the other guy is using US tech to do it all. 😀

SK having nuclear arms isn’t out of the equation entirely…didn’t they admit to working on uranium enrichment or something like that recently? I do find it interesting though that one side of the potential conflict in the region (China and NK) are allowed to possess nuclear arms, but Japan is not. Certainly nobody could blame SK for pursuing WMDs, especially given the large quantity in NK hands, predominantly pointed south.

again, forgeting the US. the US is in effect japan’s nuclear umbrella against NK.

as for china, see above.

the other side of the coin is that of the two sides of the potential conflict in the region, one side (japan) is allowed to buy far more advanced conventional weapons (which are far far more likely to actually be used as opposed to nukes) from the US, while china and NK arent. isnt this kinda making the nuclear option look more attractive to them? 😀 😉

You do make good points there.

as do u. 🙂

Well again, it’s all about deterrence. Whether it would spark a massive arms race is another story. I don’t necessarily think it would come to that. Regardless, even if you only consider the NK nuclear threat, Japan should be allowed to possess an equatable deterrent of their own, if only to retaliate in kind.

well, take guns for example. everyone in the US has one (statistically speaking), extremely few ppl have them in western europe. which area has the bigger gun murder rate?

there is the basic mathematical theory that as long as there is a chance of something happening, the more times u try, the more lilely that it will happen. if that something involves nuclear weapons, be it misfirings, accidents etc, then i’d like to keep the odd as low as possible.

japan has the US to deter NK nuclear aggression just as well as japanese nukes. the possibility of a chinese nuclear attack are about as remote as me winning the lottery this week.

weighing the possible risks and costs against the gains, it just dont add up. unless u factor in a ‘little’ something called nationalism, and/or imperialist aspirations (same principle as the chinese nuclear first strike example, might not be government policy, but there will be ppl in high places who support it). :rolleyes:

So even though modern technology has allowed people like you, to realize that our lovely Japanese friends are all not pirates you still regard them as so 😮

Yes just as you regarded native american as savages and called the eskimos or indians. Please we can continue this forever, so for the sake of avoiding an continuing argument we should regard the organized Japanese attacks against china as Piracy. And to the chinese at the time the only Japanese is Pirates.

talk about diverting the subject here, were we not talking about the technological capacities of Indonesians and such at the time? talk about avoiding the question!! 😀

of course if we were to talk about raiders, there are other barbarians who raid through means other than ship 😉

You brought up the subject of the possibility other pirates.
I have to correct your views. FYI we are only talking about the coastal area so please stay on topic! Can’t ignore the fact that Japanese were pirates!

hey, it works for people who claim the Spratley islands 😀

Chinese have a garason on it, Japan have nada
both PRC and RoC have forces in the Spratley.

The Island Japan that claims only surface after the high tide! It’s nothing like the Spratley!

Never heard of a country called vietMAN 😀 but let’s cut to the chase..
how many countries has Japan invaded since WWII ended and how many countries has China fought since WWII ended. Lets see you answer that 🙂

Typo and sadly everyone makes mistakes…
Isn’t WW2 bad enough?It’s called world war for a reason! I think they killed more ppl in ww2 than in almost all of the conflicts china fought! mind you both china and US never fought any real wars… it’s called police conflict.

well it goes to show how ignorant you are, try living in both Britain and France like I have :).. now that we know you’re canadian, we have some suspicion to who you really are..

Canadians are special because we have both english and french living in the same country! Yet we still see some distinct confrontations. Europe is much worse off.

It does represent Japan because that is what the wourld know about japan at the time! Why are the columbians called drug traffickers ? Do all columbians
deal drugs? No!
Chinese have discovered many things before the europeans but never credited with these discouvery. Why? cause no one else knew about them!
ex: Pythagoras theorm was first discovered and published in chinese text but no european knew about it!

So even though modern technology has allowed people like you, to realize that our lovely Japanese friends are all not pirates you still regard them as so 😮

The Polynesians are not pirates and never came to china even if they did they did not have the arms to combat the chinese coastal howitzers… The japanese are the only ones!

talk about diverting the subject here, were we not talking about the technological capacities of Indonesians and such at the time? talk about avoiding the question!! 😀

of course if we were to talk about raiders, there are other barbarians who raid through means other than ship 😉

Oh so the Japanese claim to the waters based on a rock 2*2m is legit? lets see someone live on that thing before I would call it a island!

hey, it works for people who claim the Spratley islands 😀

A responsive army that invaded almost the whole of asia… while the NK and Vietnam never fought anybody off of the korean peninsula or Vietman?

Never heard of a country called vietMAN 😀 but let’s cut to the chase..
how many countries has Japan invaded since WWII ended and how many countries has China fought since WWII ended. Lets see you answer that 🙂

I’ve been to most European countries FYI…and yes the French are Sneering towards the Brits. Although i’m not really interested in european history i’m quite well versed due to my education background in Canada…We were required to learn in school.

well it goes to show how ignorant you are, try living in both Britain and France like I have :).. now that we know you’re canadian, we have some suspicion to who you really are..

so you admit that it is a mis-representation, yet still insist that it represents the entire Japan :rolleyes: tsk tsk

It does represent Japan because that is what the wourld know about japan at the time! Why are the columbians called drug traffickers ? Do all columbians
deal drugs? No!
Chinese have discovered many things before the europeans but never credited with these discouvery. Why? cause no one else knew about them!
ex: Pythagoras theorm was first discovered and published in chinese text but no european knew about it!

Technologically unable to do so? how so? Even Polynesians with rickydick wooden canoes manage to travel all the way to Hawaii and Easter Island.. are you saying the only pirates in Asia are Japanese? 😮 :rolleyes:

The Polynesians are not pirates and never came to china even if they did they did not have the arms to combat the chinese coastal howitzers… The japanese are the only ones!

Based on PRC’s maritime claims, is there any body of water that is NOT considered Chinese waters? 😀 I mean after all, a Nuclear sub that was spotted by the Japanese not to long ago must’ve been in Chinese waters!

Oh so the Japanese claim to the waters based on a rock 2*2m is legit? lets see someone live on that thing before I would call it a island!

one has a responsible military the other has an irrational, irresponsible and unpredictable military… based on your thinking, smaller nations like Vietnam, N.Korea, and S.Korea are allowed to fly missiles over China eh? :dev2: :rolleyes:

A responsive army that invaded almost the whole of asia… while the NK and Vietnam never fought anybody off of the korean peninsula or Vietman?

Try living in Europe buddy 😉
Here is where i’m justified regarding your lack of insight on european history! 😀

I’ve been to most European countries FYI…and yes the French are Sneering towards the Brits. Although i’m not really interested in european history i’m quite well versed due to my education background in Canada…We were required to learn in school.

Here is where i’m justified regarding your lack of insight on asian history!
Japanese were pirates because they represent the japanese nation on the whole to other nations at the time. They were the only Japanese who got out of the country, and they were the only official deligation from “the land of the rising sun”. North American Natives were called The Red Men because the first tribe they encountered painted their body red! This was accepted internationally but were all tribes like that? No! but they represented indians at the time!

so you admit that it is a mis-representation, yet still insist that it represents the entire Japan :rolleyes: tsk tsk

And final comment to your inquireries as to possible pirates of other nationallity that’s definate no! Southeast asian countries like Malaysia, Indonesia were technologically unable to do so, Korea was a puppet nation, as is Vietnam. Vietman was relatively peaceful at the time, being Buddhists.
And when did WW2 happen? quite recently because “the people who suffered” have not all died yet! it’s not like it happened some hundred or so years ago!

Technologically unable to do so? how so? Even Polynesians with rickydick wooden canoes manage to travel all the way to Hawaii and Easter Island.. are you saying the only pirates in Asia are Japanese? 😮 :rolleyes:

eh, Japan destroyers intercepted chinese merchant vessels in chinese waters, so I woulden’t talk!

Based on PRC’s maritime claims, is there any body of water that is NOT considered Chinese waters? 😀 I mean after all, a Nuclear sub that was spotted by the Japanese not to long ago must’ve been in Chinese waters!

Go goolge that! Japan has by far a better military than NK! Who do you think is more intimidating? NK with one or two missles or Japan who has the ability to annilate NK?

one has a responsible military the other has an irrational, irresponsible and unpredictable military.. based on your thinking, smaller nations like Vietnam, N.Korea, and S.Korea are allowed to fly missiles over China eh? :dev2: :rolleyes:

They were allies in WW2. Both are in NATO…there is no relation! BTW go ask any frenchie how they fell about the Brits and you’ll get the same answers! Ever wonder why so many French speaks english yet refuse to answer when you ask something in English?

Try living in Europe buddy 😉
Here is where i’m justified regarding your lack of insight on european history! 😀

Thanks for the fix 😀

You know, that’s a good point. I didn’t really look at it from that angle. Maybe they want a nuclear deterrent to hang over Moscow’s head as a bargaining chip for the Sakhalin Island (I think that’s the right chain) dispute? Just an off the wall thought. I’m good at those 😀

not to nitpick, but it’s the Kurile Island chain, of which Japan claims the southern 4 as their Northern territories. Sakhalin is definitely recognized by Japan and the rest of the world as Russian.. what few native races they had there were mostly deported to Japan.. there’s only 4000, Nivkhs, 200 Oroks, and no Ainu there today, but alot of Russians and Koreans. 🙂

im affraid u just dont understand the level of suspicion, anger and hatrid that still lives in almost all asian nations that were occupied or invaded by japan in WWII.

Only having ever lived in Korea for two years, I will freely admit that I am not up to date on a lot of the cultural history of the region.

do u think the chinese, south koreans etc will be all hunky doory about japan developing a nuclear first strike capacity? (the only use for ICBMs is if to deliver a nuclear tip).

Well, it might make North Korea or China think twice abotu sending a weapon Japan’s way in a time of conflict. There is something to be said for deterrence. Also, I am a supporter of the idea of using ICBMs to deliver PGMs as quick-response weapons. Would the argument here be different if Japan were developing this sort of capability as opposed to nuclear armed missiles?

also, dont u find it interesting that japan was planning an ICBM instead of an IRBM? u dont need an ICBM to hit NK, and pretty much all of china’s population centres are on the eastern seaboard – also overkill for ICBMs. hint, hint. :diablo:

You know, that’s a good point. I didn’t really look at it from that angle. Maybe they want a nuclear deterrent to hang over Moscow’s head as a bargaining chip for the Sakhalin Island (I think that’s the right chain) dispute? Just an off the wall thought. I’m good at those 😀

i dont know about the others, but i know for a fact that if japan starts an ICBM project, there will be a large number of high ranking military and civilian officials in china who will be demanding action to stop it, and there will be ppl who will suggest carpet nuking japan before they have an ICBM! 😮 thats not saying that will be china’s response, just an extreme example of the lengths some ppl might be willing to go to prevent japan becoming a nuclear threat.

Perhaps that’s exactly the kind of response we’d want to be thrown about in diplomatic circles. It might serve to rid the area of nuclear arms entirely, although I don’t think China would ever agree to something like that.

china’s response will most likely be economic related, maybe going as far as stopping or threatening to stop trade with japan altogether. but there will also be a military elemint. what china is currently spending on defence will look like pocket change in comparison to what it will be spending then. and the no nuclear first strike promise will almost certainly go.

Were China to retaliate, it’s also possible that the USA would impose similar sanctions on China. You can also bet on an NMD facility being erected in Japan were this to happen.

even if japan ignores all that and goes nuclear, pretty soon SK will also follow suit, and start developing ICBMs etc. then taiwan, then anyone else that has a nuclear reactor, and u have a regon wide nuclear arms race.

SK having nuclear arms isn’t out of the equation entirely…didn’t they admit to working on uranium enrichment or something like that recently? I do find it interesting though that one side of the potential conflict in the region (China and NK) are allowed to possess nuclear arms, but Japan is not. Certainly nobody could blame SK for pursuing WMDs, especially given the large quantity in NK hands, predominantly pointed south…

so, if japan makes an ICBM, instead of having possibly NK pointing one or two nukes at it (china has promised not to use nukes first or on none nuclear countries), it will also have china, SK, taiwan and anyone else with the ability pointing hundreds of nuclear tipped IRBMs and ICBMs at it. in addition, the JDF will be facing far better equipped counterparts. and this is not considering the economic consiquences and the dangers of disposal years down the line.

You do make good points there.

and this is supposed to make japan safer did u say? :rolleyes:

Well again, it’s all about deterrence. Whether it would spark a massive arms race is another story. I don’t necessarily think it would come to that. Regardless, even if you only consider the NK nuclear threat, Japan should be allowed to possess an equatable deterrent of their own, if only to retaliate in kind.

OK!…..I think thread locking time has approached…..!! 😡

now now, no need to resort to name calling, not very mature you know, sometimes people can’t handle hearing things they don’t want to hear :diablo:.

I didn’t call you names i said you shouldn’t comment if you know nothing…

So the pirates represent the action of the entire Japanese nation? keeping in mind they came in an era where Japan was made up of multiple warring fiefdoms.. but then again some people just don’t know their history. I’m sure there were other non-Japanese Asian nations that harassed Chinese cities, i guess that means they aren’t allowed to have weapons hundreds of years later because of this eh? 🙂 .

Here is where i’m justified regarding your lack of insight on asian history!
Japanese were pirates because they represent the japanese nation on the whole to other nations at the time. They were the only Japanese who got out of the country, and they were the only official deligation from “the land of the rising sun”. North American Natives were called The Red Men because the first tribe they encountered painted their body red! This was accepted internationally but were all tribes like that? No! but they represented indians at the time!

And final comment to your inquireries as to possible pirates of other nationallity that’s definate no! Southeast asian countries like Malaysia, Indonesia were technologically unable to do so, Korea was a puppet nation, as is Vietnam. Vietman was relatively peaceful at the time, being Buddhists.
And when did WW2 happen? quite recently because “the people who suffered” have not all died yet! it’s not like it happened some hundred or so years ago!

Yup that’s why Japan flew a missile over North Korea, and send their submarines into Chinese waters :sarcasm:.

eh, Japan destroyers intercepted chinese merchant vessels in chinese waters, so I woulden’t talk! Go goolge that! Japan has by far a better military than NK! Who do you think is more intimidating? NK with one or two missles or Japan who has the ability to annilate NK?

of course your theory is perfect because Britain and France should be suspicious of each other’s weapons because they’ve had hundreds, if not a thousand years of conflict with each other :rolleyes: that’s why they’re such bitter enemies.

They were allies in WW2. Both are in NATO…there is no relation! BTW go ask any frenchie how they fell about the Brits and you’ll get the same answers! Ever wonder why so many French speaks english yet refuse to answer when you ask something in English?

Please don’t comment if you know nothing of asian history!
if you don’t talk no one will think your deaf…

now now, no need to resort to name calling, not very mature you know, sometimes people can’t handle hearing things they don’t want to hear :diablo:

Historically Japan have always been hostile china, can’t really blame them having been so small of a mountainous country. But Japan never had the military power to actually invade China until ww2. Histrically Japanese were a tribe of priates that robbed the costal port cities, and there was almost no way of completely defeating them since they left before an army was mustered up! So yes the asian also had a very long period of war.

So the pirates represent the action of the entire Japanese nation? keeping in mind they came in an era where Japan was made up of multiple warring fiefdoms.. but then again some people just don’t know their history. I’m sure there were other non-Japanese Asian nations that harassed Chinese cities, i guess that means they aren’t allowed to have weapons hundreds of years later because of this eh? 🙂

Even if Japan developes offensive weapons you have to ask yourself what it is for. Japanese expasionism is by far much stronger than China given it’s geographical situation. Japan have no crude oil, no major mineral deposits on island. so ie no major natural resources! Japan depends solely on its industries but as you see the market has come under extreme competition! Cheap labour from china, india,etc forced many Japanese industries to relocate its factories.

As i said before Japan have no right as to develope a first strike capability, and hopefully the US government will contihue agree with me…

Yup that’s why Japan flew a missile over North Korea, and send their submarines into Chinese waters :sarcasm:

btw, it’s Colin Powell not Collen, spell it right!

of course your theory is perfect because Britain and France should be suspicious of each other’s weapons because they’ve had hundreds, if not a thousand years of conflict with each other :rolleyes: that’s why they’re such bitter enemies.