Not that Seafire 47 again!

Spitfire Tails

I know this is a very old thread, but it does not appear to have a definitive answer to the “Big Tail Spitfire” question.

In fact, the issue was not power or torque, but the increased area of the propeller blades on the 5 & 6 bladed props, which required a counterbalancing area aft to keep the a/c directionally stable in flight.

Having said that, I have no doubt that the enlarged fin made it considerably easier to keep the Griffon engined Spitfires going in the right direction on the ground, but it was not the prime reason for the big tail.

I seem to recall reading something about the adoption of the larger tails in The Spitfire Story by Alfred Price. If anyone wants I can look/type it up later.

Thanks guys, wiser now – Don

Good stuff 🙂

Gnome,

As mentioned by Mark V in the previous post, the larger area tail units seem to stem from lack of directional control after the introduction of the higher powered Griffon engines and the larger diameter props that went with them.

For those who are not conversant with the Spiteful/Seafang types, two links below will take you to some info on them.

I thought I had some photos of the 2 types but cannot lay my hands on them presently.

http://www.supermarine-spitfire.co.uk/the_spiteful.htm

http://www.supermarine-spitfire.co.uk/the_seafang.htm

Regards,

Laurie.

Gnome, the larger fin and rudder arrangement was not directly associated with the contra-rotating prop or carrier operations. It was first employed on the Spitfire 22 and 24 and, of course on the Seafire 46 & 47. In side profile it is indeed rather larger than the earlier Mks 14, 18, 19 & 21 and I guess has more to do with the need to increase directional stability and rudder authority with the additional power afforded by the later Griffon engines. The lack of torque associated with contra prop variants (Seafire 47) did not negate the need for this larger tail unit.

Thanks Laurie (relieved my eyesight’s OK :rolleyes: ). Still intrigued of course. Who will enlighten us? cheers Don

I’ve revived this thread as a result of the link from the NX611 Double Anniversary thread. I looked here, thought wow I missed that (in Sep ’04).
But I also have a question for the Spitfire knowledgeable here (a quality I don’t have). Looking at the profile of this magnificent machine I’m taken by the overall size/area of the vertical surfaces (fin/rudder). Am I mistaken or are these much larger than one would find on a “normal” late model Spitfire? If so, is that to do with the contra-rotating props, or Griffon power, or being a carrier aircraft? Or am I in fact much mistaken, in which case my apologies – please correct me!

Gnome,

You are correct.

The FR Mk 47 version of the Seafire was fitted with the larger tail assemblies originally intended for the Spiteful, Supermarine’s last piston engined fighter. I’m not sure of the reasons behind the change, perhaps Mark12 can enlighten us. Only a few of these aircraft were ever produced. All, I believe, except those that went to test establishments, ended up in store at 6 MU Brize Norton.

It had also been intended to produce a navalised version of the Spiteful, that was to be known as the Seafang. Only 16 of these were ever built and, IIRC, none entered service. They were used for development work only before being scrapped.

Regards,

Laurie.

Just love the toe brakes !!

A purist if ever I met one. Just look at the paint job!

good eyesight ………yes

Most people think im losing my eyesight for some reason

Can’t think why?!!

Just love the toe brakes !!

Oh my word…..my first sight of this thread. Simply stunning – a dream come true for a simple enthusiast.

Heaven knows how Mark contained himself.

I’ve revived this thread as a result of the link from the NX611 Double Anniversary thread. I looked here, thought wow I missed that (in Sep ’04). (etc, etc………….

Hi ‘Gnome’

Glad my ‘Forum’ thread {LANCASTER NX611 – ‘Double ANNIVERSARY’ REUNION EVENT} has had additional side benefits to that of the original theme subject matter, namely the search for “old mates”, in that it pointed you to this relatively ‘old’ thread.

As my old friend, and fellow ‘Forum’ contributor, Laurie Bean would unhesitantly agree “YOU CAN NEVER GET ENOUGH OF THIS AIRCRAFT” – keep the thread live for as long as possible!!!!

Kind Regards 😉

Richard

I’ve revived this thread as a result of the link from the NX611 Double Anniversary thread. I looked here, thought wow I missed that (in Sep ’04).
But I also have a question for the Spitfire knowledgeable here (a quality I don’t have). Looking at the profile of this magnificent machine I’m taken by the overall size/area of the vertical surfaces (fin/rudder). Am I mistaken or are these much larger than one would find on a “normal” late model Spitfire? If so, is that to do with the contra-rotating props, or Griffon power, or being a carrier aircraft? Or am I in fact much mistaken, in which case my apologies – please correct me!

Not that Seafire 47 again!

Oh no! 😮 It looks great again! This one is also on my wish list to see ‘live’ one day!

Great pics Mark!
J.V.

Mark,

Great shots, thanks for posting 😎

See you Sunday

Such a shame 3d projection hasn’t been developed properly! However, it will be nearly fullsize on the screen 😀

Thanks Mark, really looking forward to seeing that 😀

Link:Film show

MK 12
Nice article in that ‘certain other aviation Journal’ BTW

Heretic! Burn him at the stake! 😮 😮 😮

I don’t know, sounds like a reasonable statement to me. Very nice job and a very interesting article in a certain aviation magazine which of course none of us have read!!!!

I’m not usually too keen on Griffon-engined Spit/Seafires, but this one really is rather fabulous… Looking forward to seeing those images on Sunday. 🙂