NX611 to fly ?????

Sorry to argue with you mate, but I don’t think you could describe East Kirkby as an ‘airport with a runway that is in good nick’.
The best you could say is that if it really, really came to it, and a ferry flight was needed, there’s enough usable runway to get her out of EK, but she’d have to land someplace else, or the EK runway would have to be totally renewed, to say nothing of the fact that it’s not on the same property as the museum!

Lancaster Fm159

Hi Brit.
Theoretically if the money was there then 159 could fly again. The other side of the coin though is that her hangar is not at an airport as it is right beside a main highway and the closest airport is 15 minutes away by car.
NX611 is different as she is at a airport with a runway that is in good nick.

How about the Nanton Lancaster FM159..she is being restored to ground running condition?

Peter what are her chances like of someday being returned to the air??:)

…precisely!

Given enough time and money, anything can go again – just look at how BBMF’s Hurricane came back literally from the ashes.

Thing is, Sugar is far too historic an airframe for the RAF to ever consider risking her. Besides, I doubt enough original parts would go again, which means she’d have to be largely rebuilt to an airworthy standard, thereby losing a hell of a lot of original material and a very large slice of her historical provenance.

Hi Lancman

Yes I no the Lanc at Hendon has sat around for years and is not gonna fly soon what I mean is the airframe etc in good enough condition to get flying again.

Yes Its mega unlikely but It would be nice to have a good option to rebuild if anything happens to the BBMF Lanc.

You are kidding, right?! 😮

Hi

Would the Lanc at Hendon be able to take over from the BBMF example if something happend to it ?

I believe it was considered a few years ago to bring the CWH Lanc over here for a season/part-season, but they eventually decided against it.

I think it’s safe to say that it’ll be a cold day in hell before our Lanc heads in the opposite direction! 😮

Pardon?! :p

Originally posted by Lancman
[B]LOL, wuss!!! 😀 😀 😀 😀

Wuss, how dare you.:D

Please note that I didn’t say that I wouldn’t do it again, just recommended that in these PC times (don’t get me started) that our readers shouldn’t and to the English teachers out there, are there too many negatives in this sentence?

I for one can’t wait to do it again, only next time it would be nice to stand between the two nacelles:D 😀

EH, did somebody say something.

not to be recommended, on my last visit, I stood beneath the starboard wingtip, without ear defenders, while the engines were run at full chat.

LOL, wuss!!! 😀 😀 😀 😀

Just a thought-it was mentioned what was the point of making ‘611’s radios work again? Well, why not? I’d think that of a seven man Lanc crew, the wireless op is possibly the most unsung, so why not enable those that remain-or Joe Public-to sit at a Lanc’s radio station, stick on some headphones and maybe call up East Kirby tower? What fun! 😀

I can see both sides to the argument but at the end of the day, should Messers Panton decide that NX611 is to fly, that decision is theirs to make and will not be taken lightly, taking into consideration the operating costs, the effect that she may have on the Museum while off-site and the effect that any loss would have on the Museum as a site of Remembrance.

As for would there be a demand for two airworthy Lancasters in the UK.

I think that the answer to this is undenably YES but would obviously be part of the decision process, as to whether or not to fly.

Now is the time that I have to sit on the fence. I prefer to believe that ‘611 will fly and would support that decision and I doubt that many here would complain too loudly or for too long, but on the reverse side, should it be decided to NOT return her to flight, I also would support this decision.

As for visiting EL, totally recommended and whilst not to be recommended, on my last visit, I stood beneath the starboard wingtip, without ear defenders, while the engines were run at full chat.

As I said, don’t try this at home kiddies but I can still hear the wonderous sound of 4 Merlins and still have a smile on my face.:D 😀

I think I’m right in saying that the surviving runway-which isn’t the main one-is on what is now a neighbouring farm? Certainly, temporary tracking had to be put down to allow the Lanc to be towed across to use it.

NX611

Very interesting discussion..quick question. First I think the taxing and engine run are great..you get a chance to see and smell these old warbirds close up. As for the runway that NX611 performed the fast runs on for the movie is that owed by the Panton Brothers also? Could they not extend their taxi area to include high speed runs once or twice a year on this runway..I read that the Dual Spitfire is towed over to use it for takeoffs

Two great posts there, gentlemen!

Great post James. Well thought through and adding useful material to the argument.

Can I add one other taxier / flier fact to the general fund of knowledge?

I learned at Elvington that the fuel used for the taxying Victor there is ‘life-expired’ Jet A1 donated by Shell when they can no longer sell it. Fuel is lifed, and once it has expired it cannot legally be used in a flying aircraft.

I didn’t know that (And ‘Well done Shell!) by the way.

Moggy

Interesting thread Phillo, and I’d just like to add my 2p. Ant’s point about a taxier being only an interim step to a flier, while I’d like to agree, the reality is that a taxier is much less expensive to operate. The paperwork, certification becomes (I understand) negligible, rather than the well known ‘equal to the size and weight of the aircraft’ and simply If a static machine will cost you £1 to preserve, a taxier £100, a flier will be £100,000! Exponential costs need exponential revenue and support. A bunch of volunteers can preserve an aircraft relatively easily with little professional aeronautical skill; a taxier requires some professional support, and a flier needs signing engineer(s) a design authority etc.

My view is to give MASSIVE credit to the Pantons and their supporters for getting this far; support them by visiting, paying and promoting, and let’s be grateful for what we’ve got. If more opportunities come along, well, I’ll be right behind them.

Thanks for the rant Paul – I have to say I agree with the sentiments, though the reasons as I understand them are different:

The Heritage Lottery Fund isn’t worried about the Germans, it’s not prepared to fund fliers because 1. they keep crashing 2. because they aren’t as creditable to the Fund’s money because they aren’t a building with a 100 year plus expectation they can put a plaque on. What annoys me as they hide it behind (as Philo says) ‘National Interest’. Rubbish. Bruce’s point does show the positive side for UK aviation from the HLF, and I absolutely agree with him.

Before I get shot down about the crashes remark, I’m afraid that we are in no position to deny the charge. I’m not advocating that we stop flying, but with the accidents this year in the UK our credibility is difficult to sustain. (the thread started before this appalling year of course!) For me, the fact that ARCo’s Blenheim has been severely damaged is the most telling, as Graham Warner, John Romain and ARCo promoted themselves (and I’d support the aim) of safe long-term operation as a memorial. My money was on them being able to do that, and I hoped, prayed and worked to help that they would achieve that aim. This ambition is severely dented at the moment. As a certain magazine outlined recently, funds to steam trains (which just are safer, and seen as safer) are much more likely than planes – though I desperately wish it were not so, it is.

Bomber Harris – Made too many enemies in the RAF hierarchy, by doing his job properly. Scapegoated for the bombing campaign which had almost universal support during W.W.II and was something the British public wanted to sweep under the carpet after. ‘Lest we Forget’ can remind us that doing what you country needs carries little reward – Let us remember that Dowding and Harris – Undeniably the two most important British air-war leaders of W.W.II – were the worst treated of their rank. Shameful.

I rather like the angel of the north, but the aerodynamics are all wrong. Won’t fly you know. (also ain’t costing what a Lanc would and it could only squash 20 people max if it fell over. – sorry.)

Ant – “W.W.II bloodiest in Human history.” You’d think so but no – W.W.I takes that jaundiced cup. Incidentally we (humanity) killed more people in the 20th Cent than the rest of history and pre-history put together. Oh dear. And for the yank bashers, more Americans died in the 1919 flu epidemic than all the wars the US was involved in in the 20th C. Fun with death (not funny) and statistics. Oh, and let’s remember that W.W.II was arguably won on the Russian front. (ok – let’s argue that one!)

Can I go into the replica or not argument please? Oh, alright, I will then. If someone wants to mock-up or make something to show what something looked like, that’s fine by me. If they represent it as being the real think when it ain’t, than it’s not fine. Personally I found the authenticity of the Halifax at Elvington very disappointing, but it does not detract for the team’s achievement. When I’ve built a 4 engined life-size bomber replica I’ll be qualified to carp. Likewise, the restored Hampden in Langley, B.C. Canada is a bit inaccurate in many ways, but at least it’s there, it’s the right shape, and it was (mainly I understand) rebuilt by an ex- Hampden crewman. It’s not good enough to go into a national collection, but I’m very glad we’ve got it.

Sadly the heart does not hold the purse strings.

Cheers

Nope!

If you want to look at a Halifax, go to Hendon, or Canada even. If you want to look at a Stirling, pray!

Let’s NOT all get into that ‘replica or not’ argument again, most of our personal views are well known, and whenever they happen to be repeated, that shouldn’t be a cue for the same old arguments over and over, eh? 😉

“the Airfix one at Elvington”

I had a look at a ‘Halifax’ at Elvington last weekend. I didn’t have a look at a Stirling anywhere at any time in my life. Are you not perhaps being slightly over-critical?